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Kenji
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PostThu Dec 12, 2019 8:59 pm 
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nordique wrote:
... I eventually fell in with a group of nordic skiers who, in  the late 1970's were reviving the telemark turn.  I remember Steve Barnett suggesting that I teach him how to nordic ski while he'd teach me telemark.  On our very light gear, we did many runs up to and down Muir, many days at ski areas, as well as day trips up and down the Sulphide Glacier on Shuksan and up to Steamboat Prow on Mt Rainier.  We also staged telemark parties at Stevens Pass after the area  shut down in the spring.  SO much fun!  Some of us also competed in telemark slalom competitions, in Washington, Oregon, and BC.  Photos from those days here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nordique/collections/72157594587372706/

Wow, I've been to those Spring tele parties, maybe just a couple times.  Donal and Terri are still close friend, skis w/ Suze once in a while, have seen Rainer in recent years.  Fun old days!

I've started alpine skiing in 79, then telemarking following year with SB's book, never stopped, still 100% while most of my friends have switched to AT.
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nordique
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PostFri Dec 13, 2019 9:05 pm 
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Kenji, I wonder if I have slides of you with the telemark gang!  It's been awhile since I've skied, as I've been working my way through more right leg surgeries--now at number nine (which was this year, right ankle fusion).  Maybe this will be the year when I get in some nordic skiing and some telemark downhill!  While I've managed over sixty hikes so far this year, they have mostly involved the use of a crutch--very slow and awkward, especially at my age of 76!  The first of my right leg surgeries was in 1968, in Vietnam (I was drafted out of a grad school program).
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Cyclopath
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PostSat Dec 14, 2019 10:13 pm 
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Update.

My doctor suggested that flexing under the ball of the foot is going to be better for me until I heal.  He suggested I get a randonee setup next season, it can take up to a year to heal fully and I'm not 20 anymore.

I don't want to use my groomed trails boots on heavier skis after my last experience, and I found a boot that feels right for my tendinitis.  So I bought the Fischer 78s and Rossi BC X5s.

I did 7 miles above Blewett Pass today.  They feel much more stable than skinny skis, no complaints there.  And I can get them up on the edges.  But I can't believe how much work it was getting back down the hill.  My average HR coming down was pretty close to my max going up.  I hope this was just snow conditions, maybe they need steeper hills though.
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ale_capone
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PostSun Dec 15, 2019 8:05 am 
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I forget the model of the boots I used to love. Pretty sure they where scarpa. Bought them used for 100$ at backdrop sports. Sounds like something similar could be ok for you next year if you want to randonee and are still recouping. . Someone else might be able to identify.

They where orange, and had a flex front like tele boots, but could be used in alpine touring gear. ( supposedly required some part I didn't have).  Is that what is referred to as ntn? They didn't seem to have any welts or spots to accept tele bindings.  never did alpine or tele with them. I only use tech toes on a split board, but do ski them quite often, and have even hit the x country trails at Steven's on it.

Only pic I could find of boots.

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rossb
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PostSun Dec 15, 2019 9:56 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
But I can't believe how much work it was getting back down the hill.

Ski speed has to do with a ton of factors, like wax, technique, conditions, terrain, camber in relation to your weight, etc. There is no fundamental reason why those skis (and boots) would be particularly slow coming down. I have a pair of Atomic Rainiers that I drive with very similar boots and they are plenty fast.

The big difference you will feel between those and something lighter is when you have to kick turn. If you happen to find yourself traversing back and forth on the hillside, you will notice immediately how heavy those skis are (compared to your skinny skis). It is possible you were doing similar maneuvers -- maybe picking up your feet from time to time. They will require more effort going up the hill, of course (every gram counts), but it isn't likely you would notice it as much. I can skin up a hill with heavy gear and think nothing of it until I have to do a kick turn and then I miss my cross country skis.

That is just one of those trade-offs. You second set of gear is considerably heavier than your first -- my guess is there is a very big contrast (you might want to weigh them). I did that with my other gear. This table is a bit out of date for me, as I've since gotten rid of the top two skis and my Randonee boot (great boot, just hurt my foot too much). But you can see that from the really skinny skis to my BCX setup, the total weight per foot goes from 3.5 pounds to 5.6 pounds -- almost double the weight. The gear I do most of my skiing in is still considerably lighter than the BCX setup -- something I notice every time I maneuver around something.
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Cyclopath
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PostSun Dec 15, 2019 6:06 pm 
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I skied Amabilis today, up to the Y.  The conditions were much better than I expected, I could have used my skinny skis.  They haven't groomed yet, but they've been rolling and the snow is packed down.  It's also polished in the middle of the trail.

I don't notice the weight going up.  I haven't had to pick them up off the ground yet, I'm sure the minute I do a herringbone I'll have second thoughts about all of this.

Faster coming down compared to yesterday, but still much slower than I expected.  My GPS had me average 8.5 mph down the hill, it would have been double on my other skis.  I had to kick and glide through the flat sections.  Was only doing stem Christie turns (which are incredibly easy on these).  I'm guessing it's because there's a lot more drag with fatter skis.  Maybe the camber is less stiff too and I'm dragging the fishscale pattern through the snow.

Is this kind of ski only meant for steep hills?
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rossb
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PostWed Dec 18, 2019 9:30 am 
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I skied Amabalis on Sunday as well (too bad we didn't see each other). I skied up to the top, then around, making the loop. Completing the loop was a blast. Even though it wasn't groomed, and there was only one ski track, it was pretty fast and smooth, until I encountered folks on snowshoes (oh well). I didn't feel like lecturing them about avoiding ski tracks. I have a feeling the folks that snowshoe Amabalis only do it once. It really isn't a great snowshoe -- Kendall is much better. But the snowshoe book lists it, and folks want to try it out (even though they have to pay for a groomed sticker). Anyway...

I didn't think it was particularly fast or slow going down, past the Y. My skis are on the slow side (for me). Plus I had my rock skis, which are a bit scratched up, and thus a little slower.

As I wrote before, there is no reason why skis of that sort would be slow. Yes, camber for your weight could make all the difference. It is quite possible that a 95 pound woman would fly down the hill with those skis (although she would have a heck of a time going uphill). It is tough to dial in the camber just right. My very skinny skis are challenging at times. I really have to jump on them to go up hill, but man, are they fast. My standard skis (the ones I used Sunday) are a bit on the other side of things. I rarely backslide, and they aren't that fast going down Amabalis.

There are other factors. When was the last time you waxed your skis? Technique also matters. Stem Christie turns are fine, but they are slow. Unfortunately, I've found that on Amabalis, I seem to speed up going into turns, and then slow down on the straightaway (exact opposite of what you want). It is risky (there is a much bigger chance of falling) but you might want to try carving and stepping around the turn, rather than snowplowing. Although carving is faster than sliding, being on edge is slower than being flat (a flat ski is a fast ski). It is possible you are enjoying your edges a bit too much smile.gif.

But as far as the very bottom goes, it did seem really slow to me, but that is common. Plus by then I'm exhausted, and my kick and glide technique is horrible.

I will say that Amabalis is a bit slow in general, especially below the Y. But that makes it great for beginning/intermediate skiers. Kendall, on the other hand, is faster. Those skis could be really good for Kendall, especially after a lot of snow. The added surface area gives you better float, which means that it isn't that hard to break trail. They have a lot more control then your other skis (as you know) which means you are less likely to fall. The wider surface area actually make them faster in deep snow -- you are on top of the snow more than sinking in (although you still won't float on top like you would with A. T./Telemark skis). If the weather cooperates this week (and it looks like it might) you might consider heading up there. The more snow the better for intermediate/beginning skiers. With good snow and a good track, the hardest challenge is dealing with the mass of humanity at the bottom.
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Dec 18, 2019 9:49 pm 
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Both of my skis are fishscale, so I put a coat of Swix universal glide wax on them before I ski.  Every time.  I park the car, wax the skis, and then spend 10 minutes finishing my coffee and getting my stuff together while the wax dries.
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Dec 18, 2019 9:53 pm 
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My doctor told me she hitched a ride to Washington Pass on a snowmobile and skied back down to Mazama a few years ago.  I know they close the road for avy danger, but I'm probably ok two or three miles above the closure, right?

I'm in Winthrop, trying to find a plan for tomorrow.  Heavy snow is expected.  Some of the Methow trails are in pretty good shape even if not fully opened yet, but heavy snow always slows groomed trails.
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Cyclopath
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PostThu Jan 02, 2020 4:59 pm 
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I think I'm starting to understand the wisdom you're trying to share with me.  It's harder than I expected to get these skis on their edges, not terribly so, but enough to notice.  I'm guessing it's because at this weight and size, anything less than a hard plastic boot means some of your edit is going into flexing the boot.  Maybe the NNNBC binding is involved too.
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