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Bootpathguy
Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2015
Posts: 1787 | TRs | Pics
Location: United States |
Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12824 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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 Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:54 pm |
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So?
I see a lot of allegation. I do not see any established fact or evidence presented in a court of law.
I see an independent, "not for profit" environmental activist group attempting to manipulate public policy. Nobody elected any of these people. They are not on the WDFW or USFWS payroll.
I see a thinly veiled attempt to create yet another smear campaign against Diamond M, with no facts being presented as evidence. Is Bachman suggesting that Len McIrvin may be complicit in some sort of nefarious conspiracy here?
I see a great big nothing other than a lot of smoke. I am not seeing any fire.
Let me know when somebody turns up some facts.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16874 | TRs | Pics
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:30 pm |
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I see ski’s post as a lot of nonsense. Your hatred of environmentalists is based on nothing. No facts in court? It was just turned over to the prosecutors, go buy yourself a time machine and see how it cones out. And the charges come after a state investigation, not allegations from environmentalists or “people not elected”. And who elected you to anything? Where do you see anyone trying to manipulate public policy? That is a delusion on your part. The environmentalists claim wolves were killed and they were. That is fact. Your entire post is slanderous garbage. Shame on you.
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12824 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:12 pm |
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Sure, Sluggy... whatever you say.
Go back and read about the fiasco created by the guy from Pullman a few years back.
You might have saved yourself being embarrassed by doing a simple Google search.
If it walks like a duck.......... 
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Brushwork
Food truck
Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Posts: 508 | TRs | Pics
Location: Washington |
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Brushwork
Food truck
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Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:24 pm |
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Thank you Slugman. You said it better than I could have.
When I grow up I wanna play.
When I grow up I wanna play.
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:48 am |
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| Ski wrote: | | I do not see any established fact or evidence presented in a court of law. |
There is this bit of evidence:
| https://www.spokesman.com/ wrote: | | According to cell phone records obtained via a search warrant, there were numerous times Scotten and his wife said they were working when they were not. Some of those periods aligned with times when wolves attacked cattle. |
Whether or not the prosecutor chooses to file charges of fraud is another matter. As a minimum I hope the WDFW cancels their contract.
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:20 pm |
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The article notes the wolves are highly politicized, well, yes. Pushing to get predators back onto public lands in spite of the damage and losses they cause is going to get political.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12824 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:38 pm |
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| Spokesman Review wrote: | | "According to cell phone records..." |
I didn't miss that part of the article, Randy.
Perhaps you missed Scotten's response to it.
Regardless of your own beliefs about wolves, there still exists in this country something known as "presumption of innocence until proven guilty".
"Investigation" does not equate to "guilty".
If i'm completely off the mark, well, then I guess I'll be wrong, huh?
In the meantime, while some of you are ready to find a rope and a nearby tree, I will remain content to wait to see how things shake out.
Carry on. I know how much some of you enjoy the "piling on" internet thing on stuff like this.
Some of you did the same thing when the knucklehead from WSU fed the WDFW and Seattle Times a boatload of BS about McIrvine a few years back.
Perhaps I'm just easily amused.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:29 pm |
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| Ski wrote: | | Perhaps you missed Scotten's response to it. |
"I loan my phone out" -- Yeah -- I don't buy that for a second.
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Bootpathguy
Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2015
Posts: 1787 | TRs | Pics
Location: United States |
I'm not a big supporter of environmental groups. Never will be. I'll keep the reasons to myself.
Article is in the Spokesman Review. A conservative paper. It appears to be a unbiased story. Not leaning one way or the other ( The way it should be!...Seattle / King County )
Environmental groups "claim" that wolves were killed because range riders were not present to protect cattle when their time cards said they were.
I believe them ( this time )
The "honor system" isn't working in this case. People suck!
It's a black eye & a set back for this program. Folks and groups are working hard to make the range riding program work.
Unfortunate
Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018
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Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:45 pm |
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This is the first I've heard of this range riding program. Seems like whoever set it up neglected to include mandatory phone verification or other tracking methods to ensure it was being done. Feh. Another reason why I usually avoid wolf-related threads. I'm sick of reading about them being killed. And while I'm thinking of it, let's forget about the griz reintroduction program, for the same #@*#&$^ reason. 
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Sculpin
Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 1382 | TRs | Pics
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Sculpin
Member
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Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:52 am |
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| Bootpathguy wrote: | | Folks and groups are working hard to make the range riding program work. |
No doubt true, but we now have evidence that some are working it the other way. My understanding is that the money for range riding first goes to the ranchers, and it is their responsibility to hire the riders, no doubt with some oversight. Government entities these days shy away from hiring workers themselves.
The accused said:
“'If they want to pull phone records they can pull phone records all they want,' he said. “I loan my phone out.”
As for the WDFW cameras not spotting him or other riders from DS Ranch, he said they intentionally avoid the areas where they know WDFW cameras are, instead focusing on trying to find cattle."
That is what I used to do too, hide from my boss so that he was never able to verify that I actually showed up that day. 
The accused also said:
“It’s (wolves) used as a political ploy,” he said. “It’s used as a weapon to try to remove grazing on public lands, and if you sit back and do absolutely nothing about it, you’re basically allowing the other side to take control. And for me that’s unacceptable.”
So let's unpack all this. By not range riding as he was contracted to do, he gave the wolves space to take cattle. And then when they did, they were lethally removed. Which seems to be what he wanted in the first place. And he got paid for the scheme. It all sounds too easy to me.
I predict that this will profoundly change how the program goes forward. But it also means that these adversaries are in for the long haul, trying to sabotage the program at every opportunity. 
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:18 am |
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Yesssssh, let's immediately stop a program just because a couple of idiots didn't do their work. I shall once again point out where that way of thinking leads to---let's close down all trails because hikers are slobs and leave poop and litter around.....
Educate yourselves before starting a lynch mob. Here's a good article on a real range rider. Read it.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/nov/03/the-cowboy-whisperer-ferry-county-range-rider-work/
If you can't access the article, I can't help you. I actually pay for a subscription.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Bootpathguy
Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2015
Posts: 1787 | TRs | Pics
Location: United States |
Conservation Northwest has to defend themselves and put out a news release
"The range riders involved in this investigation were under contract with the state. They have never been under contract with Conservation Northwest (CNW)"
"Since 2011, Conservation Northwest has operated its own Range Rider Pilot Project, working with trained and vetted range riders, wolf biologists, local ranchers, and state and federal conflict specialists to supplement private and state range riding efforts and other conflict avoidance tactics"
https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/perspectives-on-range-riding-and-newwcc/
Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
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Sculpin
Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 1382 | TRs | Pics
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Sculpin
Member
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Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:15 am |
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| treeswarper wrote: | | Here's a good article on a real range rider. Read it. |
That link does belong on this thread as a counterpoint, but was posted on nwhikers before, maybe by you. I read it. If guys like that were consistently out there, the wolves would find another way to make a living.
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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