Forum Index > Stewardship > closing middle fork rd at dingford crk - in favor or not--speak your mind now
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Dante
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PostFri Jan 11, 2002 9:42 am 
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I think Backpacker Joe might characterize Robert Reich and Ira Magaziner as "socialists."  Lots of conservatives have.  What they mean is collectivists, but who would understand that?  Yet the economic policies Reich and Magaziner (and many in Republican administrations as well) advocated were close to those of the fascists.  See e.g. Economic Fascism  Brian, I'd love to talk with you sometime about the similarities and differences of anarcho socialism and libertarianism--I think the main difference is the underlying assumption about human nature--but I don't want to take us further off topic (although it is tempting to discuss the Forest Service and timber companies in the context of the linked article wink.gif ).  Let's talk about the middle fork smile.gif

If paving the road to the taylor is a done deal, then I think it should be gated at (or at leas left unmaintained after) the Taylor or Dingford Creek.  Just paving the road to Taylor will put more pressure on the lakes around Mt. Garfield.  I just don't know how much traffic places like Crawford lake could support.

The great thing about the Middle Fork road is it allows some of us a shortcut into the heart of the wilderness area.  If they improved the road all the way I think the Forest Service would have to limit access to protect the areas accessible from the end of the road.  Even if they don't improve the road, the pressure on those areas is going to increase due to the improvement of the lower road and continuing population growth in and around North Bend.  I'd rather walk further than see those areas trashed.  I have no problem with leaving the road open to mountain bikes or even horses.
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Stefan
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PostFri Jan 11, 2002 10:02 am 
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Brian Curtis wrote:
The paving is pretty much a done deal, but the EIS has not yet been filed. Information on where to comment on the EIS is available here http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-IMPACT/2001/April/Day-27/i10539.htm. The draft (I think) Access Travel Management plan for the valley is due out any day. There will be a comment period as soon as that comes out. A gate at the Taylor or any where else is not a done deal.

From my reading of this link this a study only on the Middle Fork road to where it terminates at the Taylor.  That means the Taylor Road will not be touched.  The government pretty much sticks to what it says in these assessments it will do and not go beyond it--becuase it will cost money.

4 wheelin people can still enjoy the Taylor and others can enjoy the hike on the other side of the river without undue influence.

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Dante
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PostFri Jan 11, 2002 10:05 am 
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I hope you're right.  No need to gate the road yet.  It would probably be best to wait and see what actual impact the paving ant the campground has on the upper part of the road and the surrounding area.
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Backpacker Joe
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PostFri Jan 11, 2002 10:24 am 
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Ok ok maybe Brian is *technically* correct.  But Marx's philosophy was JUNK science anyway.  The human condition would/could never allow such political philosophies to work.  That has been proven over and over again wherever *real* socialism has been tried.  There was a reason the ruling party in 1930's+ Germany  referred to themselves as NATIONAL SOCIALISTS!  Fascism is one hell of a lot closer to socialism, which in its true (not dream state) is total government ownership/control, than it is any comparisson to liberty or freedom!  The fact is that calling a conservative a *fascist* is idiotic!  That said, I agree with Dante in that the surrounding area is as delicate as any in the ALW and that the road should be closed beyond the taylor if it is to be paved to the taylor.  I know the BS about GoldMeyer getting their right of way.  Ok, hell they'll probably USE that privilage to SELL taxi service to the end of the road anyway.  There is something to be said about how simplistic the reality of "the farther away it is/harder to get to" the less traffic ensues.  I get enough time off every summer to walk that bloody MFT to its headwaters.  I'll just hike it.

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

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Brian Curtis
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PostFri Jan 11, 2002 10:41 am 
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There are two separate things going on right now. One is the plan to pave the road to the Taylor. That's what the EPA link covered. It goes no farther then the Taylor.

The second is the Middle Fork Access Travel Management Plan. That is an effort to formulate a plan for the entire valley, both below and above the Taylor. I'm only speculating, but I'm guessing they will present a list of different options for public comment that will probably include everything from leave it alone to gate it at the Taylor to other options in between. As far as I know this isn't out yet, so I can't link to it but it was promised sometime this month.

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Backpacker Joe
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NWH Joe-Bob
PostFri Jan 11, 2002 11:04 am 
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Brian, you are damn good at keeping up with this stuff.  Could you find and post a date and place where that meeting will occur?  Based on all the opnions and posts here I think there are people that would like to attend that meeting. I would.

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

— Abraham Lincoln
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Brian Curtis
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PostFri Jan 11, 2002 11:26 am 
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There are no scheduled meetings. The FS will, sometime, release their plan. At that time I suspect they'll schedule some meetings, but I don't know for sure. This plan has been in the works for several years and has supposedly almost been done for quite some time. We'll know when it gets released.

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that elitist from silverdale wanted to tell me that all carnes are bad--Studebaker Hoch
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Backpacker Joe
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PostFri Jan 11, 2002 12:02 pm 
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Well then roger that B.C..

TB

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

— Abraham Lincoln
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Damian
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PostFri Jan 11, 2002 1:57 pm 
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Tom you amaze me.  After all that talk about the lefties wanting to restrict access to motorized vehicles you come down in favor of gating the road?  I lost something in attempting to follow this thread.

Even if the road is paved to Taylor, gating at that point will only stop people with worthy vehicles, who would have come even if the road wasn't paved.

I intend to follow this issue and will report back to this group with information on voicing opinions to the FS.  Lots of good thoughts have been expressed.  All this talk about the MFk has me regretting selling my 4x4 last year. Contray to some opinions, the road is not fit for my stock Subaru.
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Stefan
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PostFri Jan 11, 2002 1:58 pm 
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You da man BC.  You da man.  Could you please post something on this site when you hear of any word wether they have public meetings or not?  Or anything publicly released?

I bet we can have a great meeting of people who frequent this site at a pub visit BEFORE and AFTER a meeting of this significance!

BC, don't assume people on this chatroom know when all that stuff becomes public knowledge.  I am certainly one of those who is not on top of everything......

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Backpacker Joe
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NWH Joe-Bob
PostFri Jan 11, 2002 2:16 pm 
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Damian, my point was that IF they pave it to the Taylor, then yes I am in favor of gating it.  That pavement will bring HORDS of people who will want to push the envelope farther.  There are enough people who take their hondas on that road now.  My point is that paving it iwll CAUSE over use and over population that really doesnt exsist now!

TB

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

— Abraham Lincoln
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polarbear
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PostFri Jan 11, 2002 8:02 pm 
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Hey man, I own a Honda and it will drive circles around your 4WD any day...er...in the parking lot that is.  lol.gif

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Backpacker Joe
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NWH Joe-Bob
PostSat Jan 12, 2002 11:43 am 
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Yo PB, here are my 4x4's.

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

— Abraham Lincoln
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Backpacker Joe
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NWH Joe-Bob
PostSat Jan 12, 2002 11:46 am 
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Number two!

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

— Abraham Lincoln
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Dante
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PostSat Jan 12, 2002 10:39 pm 
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ROTFLMAO--You have to give your new 4x4 (number one?) a name.  Maybe you can get some stadium gigs wink.gif

Sorry--just ribbin' ya.  On a more serious note, when are you gonna sell your Cherokee and how much are you going to ask for it?
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Forum Index > Stewardship > closing middle fork rd at dingford crk - in favor or not--speak your mind now
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