Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > The Turkey Invasion
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
kitya
Member
Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 538 | TRs

kitya
  Top

Member
PostSat May 02, 2020 3:38 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper wrote:
Bone up on your PNW history and location please.

You are so considerate to give me the lesson.

Perhaps you also should know that almost every culture ranging from middle ages European to ancient Chinese has stories about dragons, but nobody ever found any evidence of any real dragon anywhere. Humans travel and stories travel, they do not represent reliable estimation of any animals native range.

To estimate native range scientists use excavated remains and carbon dating. Native range of coyote before 1700 definitely included what is now Montana and Eastern parts of Idaho. However it most likely didn't include any part of what is now Washington or Oregon. Yes there were small areas of prairies in the West, but they were disconnected and far from coyote native habitat and also wolves were present too. The closer to our time it gets, the more definitive data we have. Coyotes range extended to east of the cascade mountains by 1900 and with eradication of wolves eventually reached all the way to Olympic peninsula by recent times. Fact however is, there is no evidence of any coyote west of cascade mountain range before 1900.

All we are talking about is that coyotes are not native animals along north west coast (I said coast, not all of PNW) exactly same way as eastern gray squirrels are not native. Sure, every animal is native to some part of the world, so unless you bring someone from mars, everyone is native somewhere. Both coyote and eastern gray squirrels are non native in exactly same way - they are both native to the north American continent, but were not present along north west coastal areas before colonization and both reached the areas where we live at about same time (1900s).
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 9719 | TRs
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
  Top

Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostSun May 03, 2020 8:05 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Whatever.  I'll continue to go with the history of the people (humans) who were originally here. 

A coyote is a real animal.  I've shot NEAR them to keep them scared of people.  Not to worry, that was way out in the sticks of the NCW area where I lived at the time.

ON TURKEYS

Half of the turkey habitat orchard has been......clearcut over the winter.   lol.gif   I suspect it will still be orchard but will see.  It's on a road that I ride my bike on frequently.  I did spot three Toms (the turkey kind) still wandering around and they have half the orchard intact.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sculpin
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 662 | TRs

Sculpin
  Top

Member
PostSun May 03, 2020 8:21 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I think Kitya is pretty much spot on...

kitya wrote:
Non native squirrels and bunnies just take the spaces vacated by native species already, they don't encroach or kick native species out.

...but that is not quite right.  The Eastern Gray Squirrel is not so much interested in the habitat of the Douglas Squirrel, but it did outcompete the Western Gray Squirrel, which is now on the brink of extinction.  They are both creatures of the oak forest.

Birds were not mentioned, but it is instructive to point out that our state bird is the Goldfinch.  Seen one lately?  That is because they have been driven out by starlings, as have bluebirds.  The larger starlings have taken over the nest holes.

I am not anticipating much effect from turkeys on local wildlife, but it is hard to make predictions, especially about the future!

--------------
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11028 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostSun May 03, 2020 11:54 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
wow. dizzy.gif

this one sure went off the rails in a hurry.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 1067 | TRs
Location: Seattle
Anne Elk
  Top

BrontosaurusTheorist
PostSun May 03, 2020 2:52 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sculpin - thanks for the little tip re goldfinches. When I first moved into my east Ballard home about 20 years ago, goldfinches would occasionally visit.  I have a photo of 4 of them at one of my feeders.  After my first 5 or so years here, nada.  All the bird life here has been impacted by the densification and the new Seattle building codes, which allow buildout to pretty much the whole lot.  frown.gif

--------------
"There are yahoos out there.  It’s why we can’t have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11028 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostSun May 03, 2020 5:18 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I get goldfinches in my back yard occasionally, but that may be because I am so close to Pt. Defiance. Surprisingly not many starlings around here. Lots of Northwestern Crows, though.
Used to have Stellers Jays come and visit, but a pair of Western Scrub Jays took up residence here some time ago and I rarely see the Stellers any more. (I am certain it was the pair of Scrub Jays who built the nest in the juniper bush next to my front door.)
Used to have quite a few of the native Douglas Squirrels in our back yard when I was a kid - about two miles due east of Oak Tree Park, and two blocks from Wapato Park.
Observations made over many years with my own eyeballs cause me to laugh at some of the statements above.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11028 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostSun May 03, 2020 5:27 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper wrote:
Hate to tell you more, but there were areas of prairie from Olympia on down what is now the I-5 corridor, into the Willamette Valley.  Tribes burned the forest to make habitat for deer and berries and vegetation such as Camas roots, desirable shrubs for basket weaving etc.  Ski has posted an article of a tribe setting a fire to burn out an enemy tribe.  Native Americans have used fire for land management way before any Europeans arrived.

Most of those citations can be found in several of my posts in this thread:

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7963729

The notion that the Pacific Northwest (or any other part of the North American continent) was at some point in the distant past covered with unending forest is laughable at best.

I'm not going to expend time and energy trying to address the nonsense posted above. The individual who is so tragically misinformed can do the research themselves. Or not.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Malachai Constant
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 14666 | TRs
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny
Malachai Constant
  Top

Member
PostSun May 03, 2020 5:31 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
We had a bunch of Eastern Gray  Squirrels here a few years back that drove away the Douglas Squirrels. This was around the time of the cottontail invasion. The grays numbers reduced about the time the bobcats started coming the Douglas are back now, must be harder to catch in dark woods.

--------------
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > The Turkey Invasion
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy