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catsp
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Joined: 15 Jun 2017
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catsp
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 Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:02 pm |
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| JonnyQuest wrote: | | catsp wrote: | | It’s not a good analogy because the DUI law prohibits those who are drunk from driving. But the mask mandate applies regardless of whether you are “drunk” (i.e., infected). I think that for the analogy to work, it would be a mandate that those who are infected wear a mask. |
Would agree that from a perspective of the rules or law, it's not a good analogy as one (masks) speaks to all and one (DUI) speaks to only those who have been drinking. However, from a personal decision and common decency perspective, I think it's a fairly accurate analogy - both wearing a mask and not driving under the influence are personal decisions we make (at the possible expense of some minor inconvenience) that show compassion, consideration, and common decency for others. |
No offense, but I still don't see it as a good analogy on any point (I was not limiting, or even really directing, my comment to a rules or law perspective in the first place). In fact, I have decided to double down and now call it a terrible analogy. 
Again, in one you know you are impaired and hence a threat to others, and in the other not only do you not know that you are impaired, but in fact the much greater likelihood is that you are not impaired and hence not a threat to others.
There's probably some really great analogies out there, so I'm not sure why we'd bother getting stuck on this (really terrible) one. Because if all we are going for is "personal decisions we make (at the possible expense of some minor inconvenience) that show compassion, consideration, and common decency for others," so is refraining from spitting your gum on the sidewalk.
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JonnyQuest
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Well, I don't spit my gum on the sidewalk. But if I did, there's little chance it would kill you. And while I agree that the all vs. few isn't totally analogous, I would argue that some (maybe many) who drive impaired do not have the cognizant ability to know they are impaired.
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018
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Anne Elk
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Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:26 pm |
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| catsp wrote: | | Again, in one you know you are impaired and hence a threat to others, and in the other not only do you not know that you are impaired, but in fact the much greater likelihood is that you are not impaired and hence not a threat to others. |
That's probably what all the frat boys in the 15 membership houses at the UW thought, who are all now quarantined. (see my post this thread on 7/4 @ 10:21pm). It's also the kind of thinking which explains the current spike in cases nationwide.
Below is a link to my favorite statistics tracker. If you scroll down past the map on the main page, there's a listing of every state, which you can also drill into to see each county. On the far right of the chart is a column showing the average daily % increase for the last 2 weeks. It's very concerning as there are few states who are NOT in double digits.
Covid Tracker & Interactive Charts
At this rate, I figure US travelers will be banned from visiting Europe, Canada and who knows where else until there's a vaccine. We're being isolated by the world. Haven't seen a news article yet about the impact that will have on our economy.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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catsp
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catsp
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Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:56 pm |
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| Anne Elk wrote: | | catsp wrote: | | Again, in one you know you are impaired and hence a threat to others, and in the other not only do you not know that you are impaired, but in fact the much greater likelihood is that you are not impaired and hence not a threat to others. |
That's probably what all the frat boys in the 15 membership houses at the UW thought, who are all now quarantined. (see my post this thread on 7/4 @ 10:21pm). It's also the kind of thinking which explains the current spike in cases nationwide. |
The “frat boys” thought what, that it was a bad analogy? The analogizing of the DUI laws to the mask mandate? Well, they were right, it’s a poor analogy. If this is true, then I applaud these “frat boys” and their fine institution of higher learning. (Rumor has it Wazzu and Frat “Boysie” State thought it was an excellent analogy.)
Or maybe you didn’t really mean to comment on the relative merits of the analogy. Hard to tell. I’d have to read what you wrote and not take it out of context. Sounds difficult.
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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
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Ski
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Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:00 pm |
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| Anne Elk wrote: | | On the far right of the chart is a column showing the average daily % increase for the last 2 weeks. It's very concerning as there are few states who are NOT in double dig |
Percentage of.... County population?
Makes for screwy numbers, when you have tiny Grant County (pop. 97733) showing a 51.4% increase, and King County (pop. 2252782) showing am 18.8% increase.
Does not, however, diminish the significance of severity of new cases.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Malachai Constant
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This could well be the worst effect of this damned virus. Those of us who worked in tech Know that markets and manufacturing are international. The companies I worked for were regularly sending people to Asia and Europe. Much of the technical staff were under H1-B. Our country has become an object of pity at best and a joke at worst due to our response or lack there of. Even Mexico has closed the border. I cannot blame them. One can only hope the situation can be remedied or we will revert to third world status. There can be no economic relief until the US pandemic is controlled. Unfortunately, time is running out as the virus may already have reached critical mass. All we have is masks and isolation, so it goes. 
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Anne Elk
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Anne Elk
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Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:28 pm |
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Ski, I wasn't clear, sorry. You have to tweak the little arrows next to each state then it expands to show each county. There's the 2 wk average % increase shown for the counties, too. You do have to consider the raw numbers alongside the %. | catsp wrote: | | maybe you didn’t really mean to comment on the relative merits of the analogy |
Well, mostly the general fuzzy thinking. "I'm sober enough to drive" seems close enough to "I don't have any symptoms so can't be a danger to others."
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Chief Joseph
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There is no good "Analogy"....this is "Unprecedented" as they say, until you go back to 1919 and the Spanish flu, but of course no one is still living from that Pandemic.
I just don't see that it's really going away (despite my non PC earlier comment), and I especially doubt there will be a Vaccine any time soon, if ever, and even then, can it be trusted.
O' and to Annie Elk, I don't believe any statistics from any government organization at face value, my reason being is that I simply don't trust them. I will wait and see how it plays out, only then will we see whether the stats are accurate or not.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Chief Joseph
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| Anne Elk wrote: | Ski, I wasn't clear, sorry. You have to tweak the little arrows next to each state then it expands to show each county. There's the 2 wk average % increase shown for the counties, too. You do have to consider the raw numbers alongside the %. | catsp wrote: | | maybe you didn’t really mean to comment on the relative merits of the analogy |
Well, mostly the general fuzzy thinking. "I'm sober enough to drive" seems close enough to "I don't have any symptoms so can't be a danger to others." |
They have digital hand held Breathalzyers similar to what LE uses, and in my opinion they are pretty accurate, plus keeping track of time and amount of alcohol consumed gives one a pretty good idea. So that "Analogy" doesn't fly either. 
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:22 am |
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| Malachai Constant wrote: | | This could well be the worst effect of this damned virus. Those of us who worked in tech Know that markets and manufacturing are international. The companies I worked for were regularly sending people to Asia and Europe. Much of the technical staff were under H1-B. Our country has become an object of pity at best and a joke at worst due to our response or lack there of. Even Mexico has closed the border. I cannot blame them. One can only hope the situation can be remedied or we will revert to third world status. There can be no economic relief until the US pandemic is controlled. Unfortunately, time is running out as the virus may already have reached critical mass. All we have is masks and isolation, so it goes. |
It seems like much of Europe used isolation and enforced it pretty well, except for a few officials and rich folks who broke the rules. We can't do that here--isolation that is. We kind of tried the voluntary approach but folks are too weak minded to carry through. In my mind, we are a 2.5 world country and racing towards the bottom.
I had planned to recreate in Canada, but looks like that is off. My neighbor is waiting for a fountain that is made in B.C. for his landscaping project. It is not considered to be essential so cannot be shipped here. I was surprised to hear him say that he understands and from watching the behavior of people here, he would shut down the border too. I am curious as to how much business has dropped for Home Depot, Walmart, and North 40. There are usually lots of BC shoppers there and campers in Walmart. We are a country without leadership.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Waterman
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Waterman
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Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:56 am |
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JFK put this country on a path to the moon.
We can't even go to europe now.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost
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Ski
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Ski
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Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:33 am |
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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:19 pm |
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| Waterman wrote: | | JFK put this country on a path to the moon.
We can't even go to europe now. |
Even worse, we can't go to Canada now.
I made a stop for some spendy cherries on my way back from a ride in the woods. I put on my facemask and went in. There were about a dozen customers and I was the only one wearing a mask. They also had their dining area going with tables close together just like normal.
Sooo, I didn't buy anything other than cherries. Instead, I got some goodies at the IGA where they have a large sign about facemasks required and everybody was wearing one.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Ski
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Ski
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Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:30 pm |
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you know it's all gone to hell when even Canada and Mexico won't let us in. 
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Kascadia
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Kascadia
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Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:08 pm |
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| Ski wrote: | | you know it's all gone to hell when even Canada and Mexico won't let us in. |
Perhaps Mexico will pay for the wall after all. . .
It is as though I had read a divine text, written into the world itself, not with letters but rather with essential objects, saying:
Man, stretch thy reason hither, so thou mayest comprehend these things. Johannes Kepler
It is as though I had read a divine text, written into the world itself, not with letters but rather with essential objects, saying:
Man, stretch thy reason hither, so thou mayest comprehend these things. Johannes Kepler
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