| Previous :: Next Topic |
| Author |
Message |
dixon
Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2020
Posts: 176 | TRs | Pics
|
|
dixon
Member
|
 Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:59 pm |
|
|
| Animal Chin wrote: | | I am tired of people posting about "A great place for solitude" and then telling one hundred plus thousand people where it is at. One posting can turn a once great place into a crowded mess of people. |
This ^^! WTA is also bad these days, 'trip reports' quickly devolve into a pi$$ing contest of who did the most gain, mileage etc. Apparently by posting a report the WTA app links it to that facebook page somehow. I'll never understand why someone posts a report of a quiet area and how they saw no people so therefore everyone MUST go now because this is the "best" place to socially distance. The very next day theres hoards of people and the cycle continues.
How many of these social media addicts would be doing stuff outdoors if there wasn't "credit" to be had? Probably next to none as noone there to see their "achievements".
|
| Back to top |
  
|
|
Kim Brown
Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
|
| dixon wrote: | | Apparently by posting a report the WTA app links it to that facebook page somehow. |
Clarify, please. The WTA app links a trip report to the WHC page?
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dixon
Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2020
Posts: 176 | TRs | Pics
|
|
dixon
Member
|
Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:24 pm |
|
|
| RumiDude wrote: | | It's not just population growth, it's the growth in people hiking combined with population growth. |
Agreed. I think it's also important to take into account the corporations who have contributed to the popularity of the activity through their pervasive marketing campaigns. REI and the outdoor gear/clothing brands have been on a marketing frenzy profiteering greatly under the coveted #OptOutside and #getOutside slogans. I'm not really sure who else benefits other than corporations from getting more people outside, the environment certainly doesn't and neither do the generations of backcountry folk who have enjoyed solitude and exploring wild places for decades. At its core, hiking is a consumption activity and gives nothing back, the earth doesn't "need" hikers and the age old argument of 'getting more people outside will lead to protecting our wilderness' has long been debunked.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12824 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
|
Ski
><((((°>
|
Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:46 pm |
|
|
| dixon wrote: | | "...the age old argument of 'getting more people outside will lead to protecting our wilderness' has long been debunked...." |
and your citation for this is.... ?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chief Joseph
Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 7697 | TRs | Pics
Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
| Cyclopath wrote: | | I'm not sure how saturation became the one thing that really offends people. |
I compare it to fake breasts, I want the real deal!
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dixon
Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2020
Posts: 176 | TRs | Pics
|
|
dixon
Member
|
Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:14 pm |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejain
Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2009
Posts: 1498 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle, WA |
|
ejain
Member
|
Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:11 pm |
|
|
"in all cases, survey respondents cared more about environmental issues that affected their choice of recreation than issues that did not."
So maybe people's love of hiking didn't translate into concern about industrial pollution (note that this was in the 70s), but it does appear that they care about conservation, even if for selfish reasons.
I'd rather have wilderness areas suffer from overuse, than have them converted to golf courses and ski resorts (also for selfish reasons)...
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12824 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
|
Ski
><((((°>
|
Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:08 pm |
|
|
dixon:
That first "stoke" article you cited was discussed here on this site at great length, and I'm not sure that everyone here agreed with the author's conclusions.
And while Mr. Romano is very knowledgeable and well-respected, it's quite possible he doesn't have the answers to every question.
Your statement was about "'getting more people outside will lead to protecting our wilderness" which kind of flies in the face of the line member ejain pulled out of the same article you cited:
"in all cases, survey respondents cared more about environmental issues that affected their choice of recreation than issues that did not."
The bottom line is that in reality, there's really no way to quantify what degree of impact social media may or may not have on "protecting wilderness", any more than there is any way to accurately quantify what degree of impact Harvey Manning and Ira Spring's "100 Hikes" books may or may not have had on "protecting wilderness".
There is, nonetheless, truth in the statement that "getting more people outside" will have a net positive effect on outdoor recreational opportunities, whether they occur within "designated wilderness" or theme parks such as Disneyland.
Just as those "back to the earth" people from the 1960s Romano mentions, the "social media" crowds of the current era, will, in spite of themselves, at some point grow up, put on their big boy pants, and realize it ain't all about them. At that point many of them will realize that they'll have to be a bit more careful if they want their children to enjoy the same opportunities.
Certainly there will always be jackasses who crap in the middle of the trail, leave food on the ground for the bears, and cut down live trees - those idiots are not exclusive to the current generation of the "social media selfie" crowd.
I think if you ask any of the old farts on this site - like me, or Randy, or any number of others - we can all tell you stories about "the good ol' days" when NPS backcountry rangers dug the garbage pits for visitors and (as Randy loves to point out) the old "bash, burn, and bury" practice was commonplace.
Believe it or not, even Logan Paul will at some point have to grow up and join the real world.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bootpathguy
Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2015
Posts: 1787 | TRs | Pics
Location: United States |
| dixon wrote: | | Animal Chin wrote: | | I am tired of people posting about "A great place for solitude" and then telling one hundred plus thousand people where it is at. One posting can turn a once great place into a crowded mess of people. |
This ^^! WTA is also bad these days, 'trip reports' quickly devolve into a pi$$ing contest of who did the most gain, mileage etc. Apparently by posting a report the WTA app links it to that facebook page somehow. I'll never understand why someone posts a report of a quiet area and how they saw no people so therefore everyone MUST go now because this is the "best" place to socially distance. The very next day theres hoards of people and the cycle continues.
How many of these social media addicts would be doing stuff outdoors if there wasn't "credit" to be had? Probably next to none as noone there to see their "achievements". |
Yes. Like the TML's" as I use to affectionately refer to this area. Been many times and every time I had it to myself. It's not even worth the thought of going there anymore.
https://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8028484&highlight=thunder+mt+lakes+mtn+mountain
https://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8021716
Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Secret Agent Man
Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2015
Posts: 164 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
| dixon wrote: | | I'm not really sure who else benefits other than corporations from getting more people outside |
Who benefits from more people being outside? More people do! Hiking, climbing, camping, and other outdoor activities are great and people can have their lives enriched by being introduced to them. As frustrating as the crowded Stuart Lake TH parking lot is, everybody up there is a person getting fresh air and exercise, someone getting to be among the mountains and trees instead of around their phone and tv screens. The more people doing that, the better.
I am sympathetic to the selfish argument that “the wilderness is better if I have it all to myself” because it’s true, it is better. But let’s call that what it is - selfish and exclusionary. Everyone is selfish from time to time, but I’d prefer not to live my life that way too much if possible.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Riverside Laker
Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2818 | TRs | Pics
|
| Secret Agent Man wrote: | | The more people doing that, the better. |
The problem is that places are loved to death, and can turn into places nobody wants to visit.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7715 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
|
Cyclopath
Faster than light
|
Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:47 pm |
|
|
| Secret Agent Man wrote: | | dixon wrote: | | I'm not really sure who else benefits other than corporations from getting more people outside |
Who benefits from more people being outside? More people do! |
I agree with everything you wrote. Also want to point out that if only a small handful of people hiked, we wouldn't have access roads to trails, except in places that needed that road anyway. The ones we have exist because there's demand for them.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7715 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
|
Cyclopath
Faster than light
|
Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:48 pm |
|
|
| dixon wrote: | | and neither do the generations of backcountry folk who have enjoyed solitude and exploring wild places for decades. |
It's ok for other people to hike, too. Even young ones.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dixon
Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2020
Posts: 176 | TRs | Pics
|
|
dixon
Member
|
Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:05 pm |
|
|
| Secret Agent Man wrote: | | Who benefits from more people being outside? More people do! |
This goes without saying. I was speaking specifically around entities who are profiteering from "getting people outside" with no sense of responsibility for managing these crowds. I'm certainly not advocating for exclusion, I would argue what is "selfish and exclusionary" is those folks who believe that hiking trails are an extension of their local nightclub complete with loud music, yelling, foul language and poop.
Its not about having the outdoors to yourself, on the contrary, it's about sharing the outdoors with a mutually agreed respect for the environment and other people. This "should" be standard common sense but seems not so in 2020, perhaps its the entitled "i do what i want" attitudes which we are witnessing play out at scale in other aspects of society i.e. the US proving its 'exceptionalism' for Covid-19 cases.
As a data point, I witnessed a yelling match at 6am on Sat morning at the Mailbox Peak TH as several cars were vying for the last parking spot. Judging by the anger and language used you would think it was the last spot on Noahs Ark before the great flood. Is this 'Black Friday' circus what we want our backcountry to become, I know I don't. In hindsight I should have filmed it and posted it to the Washington Hikers/Climbers Facebook.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigBrunyon
Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 1455 | TRs | Pics
Location: the fitness gyms!! |
Hearing horror stories outta Blanca lake of late. 200+ on the shore! People hiking through campsites!! Difficulty taking pictures that don't feature humans!! Boomboxes.
Never been there!! I consider myself too good for that.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate NWHikers.net earns from qualifying purchases when you use our link(s). |
