Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Free the Snake Flotilla, October 3rd
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Jake Neiffer
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PostThu Oct 22, 2015 6:53 am 
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It's a good question, but I stumbled across something that said those 4 Snake River Dams provide no flood protection.  The others IDK, and imagine the ones on the Columbia are a likely a different story entirely.
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Snowbrushy
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PostThu Oct 22, 2015 1:24 pm 
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Congress would probably have to sign-off on the dam removal. Congress would first ask the Department of Defense for an opinion. They in turn would ask the US Navy about dam removal. I wonder what the Navy would say?
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NacMacFeegle
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PostThu Oct 22, 2015 6:21 pm 
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Jake Neiffer wrote:
It's a good question, but I stumbled across something that said those 4 Snake River Dams provide no flood protection.  The others IDK, and imagine the ones on the Columbia are a likely a different story entirely.

I've always thought that flood protection was by far the worst reason you could have for building a dam. The cheapest and most effective flood protection you can have is the common sense not too build in lowland areas next to rivers. Yes, it's more convenient for water-based transportation, but surely a little inconvenience is worth saving countless lives and billions of dollars! Even today there are still morons who are crazy enough to build in places as turbulent and frequently flooded as the Toutle River floodplain! I certainly wouln't feel very safe living somewhere like Longview/Kelso, Toledo, or Woodland, with not only 3 large volcanoes upstream, but also half a dozen dams on the Cowlitz, Toutle, and Lewis rivers just waiting to be torn apart in the next big eruption. Dams may hold the floods back under normal circumstances, but when the most extreme disasters strike all they will do is worsen the situation for those they were built to protect!

Regarding the snake dams, no, to my knowledge they are not used in any great degree for flood control.

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Jake Neiffer
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PostFri Oct 23, 2015 5:31 pm 
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Nac- I hear what you're saying, but my birthplace is Heppner.  Maybe that’s why I’m somewhat fond of dams. biggrin.gif
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Snowbrushy
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PostFri Oct 23, 2015 6:27 pm 
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What he said. "Mud Mountain Dam impounds the White River for flood control."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mud_Mountain_Dam
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treeswarper
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PostFri Oct 23, 2015 8:18 pm 
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I had not heard of the Heppner Flood.  Wow.

I thought it was exciting sometimes living near Douglas Cr.

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Randito
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PostSun Nov 15, 2015 10:31 pm 
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Elwha river sans dams flooding

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spamfoote
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PostSun Nov 15, 2015 11:30 pm 
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It would probably be cheaper to simply build a giant fish ladder/river on the existing dams face than to remove those large dams.

Either way, it would be an immense amount of money.
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altasnob
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PostFri Jul 31, 2020 8:24 pm 
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US: Snake River dams will not be removed to save salmon

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/snake-river-dams-will-not-be-removed-to-save-salmon-federal-government-decides/

Final Environmental Impact Statement can be found here:

https://www.nwd.usace.army.mil/CRSO/Final-EIS/#top
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gb
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PostSat Aug 01, 2020 7:28 am 
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altasnob wrote:
US: Snake River dams will not be removed to save salmon

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/snake-river-dams-will-not-be-removed-to-save-salmon-federal-government-decides/

Final Environmental Impact Statement can be found here:

https://www.nwd.usace.army.mil/CRSO/Final-EIS/#top

New Administration January 20, 2021.
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thunderhead
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PostSat Aug 01, 2020 9:03 am 
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Trump - irrational and emotional - was the best chance the dam removal clowns ever were going to have.

The environmental benefit from the dams(mainly clean hydropower) dwarfs utterly the environmental benefit from a few extra salmon.  Biden will presumably be too sane to remove the dams.
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Ski
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PostSat Aug 01, 2020 10:56 am 
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thunderhead wrote:
"... a few extra salmon..."

The Columbia-Snake river system was the largest salmon fishery in the world prior to the construction of the hydroelectric dams.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume your comment was being made facetiously.

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thunderhead
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PostSun Aug 02, 2020 10:14 am 
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By comparison to the vast emissionless hydropower that comes from the river, those salmon are inconsiquentially small.

The columbia/snake basin provides an average of about 7 gigawatts of power, enough to power about 7 million americans, nonstop, without emitting any co2 or pollutants.

A little research shows the pre-dam columbia river system could produce about 10 million pounds of salmon per year sustainably.... a tiny and irrelevant value compared with the electricity.

So "a few" is valid, in comparison with the vastly more important clean hydropower of the river.

If you want the salmon back, the dams will be replaced by combined cycle natural gas plants, and our carbon dioxide emissions will skyrocket.
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Ski
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PostSun Aug 02, 2020 1:57 pm 
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The wild runs of anadromous salmonids in the Columbia / Snake watershed fed thousands of native Americans.
The only reason that the hydroelectric dams were built with systems which didn't allow for the migration of the salmon was stupidity.
They were poorly designed, without any thought given to the resource.

Norway made the same mistake, and that's why the "Aquaculture" industry was created, which is decimating wild fish food stocks from the world's oceans, and (currently) fouling the waters of Puget Sound here.

A consequence of the lack of salmon (not necessarily in the Columbia / Snake system, but in rivers feeding into Puget Sound) is that the local Orca Whale population is becoming extinct.

Poor planning and lack of foresight isn't a valid excuse.

The amount of power generated isn't a valid reason to kill off virtually all the native runs of salmon and steelhead that once populated those rivers.

But hey, if you're only worried about MONEY, why should you care about fish?

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Brian R
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PostMon Aug 03, 2020 8:54 pm 
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"This conversation brought to you by huge, power-hungry server farms!" smile.gif

But Ski is right, there is no free lunch when it comes to generating electricity. The price here in the PNW has been much higher than we used to believe.
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Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Free the Snake Flotilla, October 3rd
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