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Noheaperture
Nohea



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Noheaperture
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PostThu Aug 13, 2020 2:53 pm 
Recently went on a cross country trip in the cascades to an extremely remote collection of lakes. A good 17 mile approach left no trails or human travel as far as I could see, including proper areas to camp. I had a few choices from what I could find: 1. Sleep in the Remnants of a thick muddy tarn 2. Attempt to pitch my tent on a large slanted boulder field. 3. Camp in a grassy knoll 15 feet from an outlet stream. Of course 200 feet from a water source wasn’t possible in this case but I opted for 3. I’m curious as to what others would do in a situation like this for future trips when traveling to places without morally responsible sites?

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Schenk
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PostThu Aug 13, 2020 3:40 pm 
In my opinion, none of your options were good. #3 was probably the best option for you, as you had chosen. Fortunately grass is resilient and will grow back. On a related note...the Wind River Range, especially near the popular areas, was overrun this past couple weeks. People ignored the 200' rule and gave many lame excuses when I asked them why they did it. So many newbies, so many who were ignorant of LNT practices. Most disturbing were the many people who actually proclaimed the 200' rule did not apply to them because "we got a late start". These hordes also planted plenty of toilet paper gardens, in plain sight! Many of these idiots were to lazy to even venture more than about 10' from their camp to poop. How do I know what their camps looked like you ask? Because they were camped right next to the damn trail. Don't even get me started on their dog's poop and how they handled those events. What slobs....There will be SO much dog and human poop in some areas that it won't be safe to walk about in them. Rant over.

Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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Ski
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PostThu Aug 13, 2020 3:52 pm 
Noheaperture wrote:
Camp in a grassy knoll 15 feet from an outlet stream.
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I've spent the night sleeping just off the roadway in a grassy ditch near East Eagle Creek, curled up around a tiny noble fir just below the summit of Craggy Peak, at the downstream end of a tiny island in the middle of a river, on a 5-foot-wide rock ledge above Copper Creek in the Eagle Cap Wilderness, on a 3-foot wide rock ledge on the east side of Huckleberry Mountain, on countless gravel bars where there was simply no way to be 200 feet away from anything, and right in the middle of the trail when my flashlight and all three BIC lighters failed one night. Just do your best to not leave any reminders of your visit to those who follow. Easy peasy. up.gif

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!



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PostThu Aug 13, 2020 4:02 pm 
Your story barely got a quiver from the needle on my outrage-o-meter. headrub.gif

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80skeys
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PostFri Aug 21, 2020 11:44 am 
Noheaperture wrote:
Of course 200 feet from a water source wasn’t possible in this case
So, this brings up something that I'm curious about and perhaps someone on here knows the answer to. Given that people are allowed to take pack animals into the backcountry (and sometimes cows are allowed to roam), I don't understand the logic of "camping 200 feet from a water source". Supposedly this is because you're not supposed to urinate or defecate near water so as to avoid contaminating it. But with pack animals, cows, and of course a zillion wild animals defecate around water all the time, it seems like a mute point.

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80skeys
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PostFri Aug 21, 2020 11:47 am 
Schenk wrote:
the Wind River Range, especially near the popular areas, was overrun this past couple weeks
Where are those people coming from - the West Coast? Or are they Wyoming locals?

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olderthanIusedtobe
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PostFri Aug 21, 2020 11:52 am 
80skeys wrote:
Where are those people coming from - the West Coast? Or are they Wyoming locals?
The Rockies are the nearest "real mountains" for a large portion of the country. Those people could've been coming from pretty much everywhere.

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joker
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PostFri Aug 21, 2020 12:47 pm 
I drove cross country to backpack in the Winds (and a few other areas including The Bob) when I lived in MA. There are a lot of NOLS alum who bring news of the loveliness of the area to friends around the country, among other ways of learning about it. As for the choices, 3 seems not unreasonable. Have you noticed how many lightly traveled trails disappear when they cross grassy meadows? If that spot isn't getting frequent campers, the grass likely won't have to "grow back" so much as just pop back up after a few rain/sun cycles. Presumably you didn't leave trash and you pooped well away from the water...

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Noheaperture
Nohea



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Noheaperture
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PostFri Aug 21, 2020 1:28 pm 
joker wrote:
Presumably you didn't leave trash and you pooped well away from the water...
Haha I met a guy who told me he used to relieve himself right on the rivers and streams in Utah because it provided easy clean up. 🤮 I try to avoid telling people what to do because it is rarely received well but I needed to mention that’s extremely wrong. With that being said, I carry a poop tube For those emergency moments but luckily find the ability to dig a cat hole and clear out when I’m below tree line (with the help of caffeine pills)

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BigBrunyon
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PostSat Aug 22, 2020 12:55 am 
The 'backcountry bidet' method(where you stop at a stream, pull down your pants, and squat so the moving water cleans y'up) gained popularity in the early 90's. Allegedly still being practiced by certain demographics presently.

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moonspots
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moonspots
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PostSat Aug 22, 2020 8:21 am 
BigBrunyon wrote:
The 'backcountry bidet' method(where you stop at a stream, pull down your pants, and squat so the moving water cleans y'up) gained popularity in the early 90's. Allegedly still being practiced by certain demographics presently.
Ah, so THAT's why my filter's been clogging up! 😆

"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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80skeys
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PostSat Aug 22, 2020 8:50 am 
So let's get back to my question: what's the rationale for not relieving oneself near the water, considering that horses and other pack animals - which poop near water a lot more - are permitted in many of those areas.

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Ski
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PostSat Aug 22, 2020 8:57 am 
Cholera, for one thing. (Among no doubt other issues.) In a perfect world, it might be possible to train all the wild animals to not poop in rivers and lakes, but that's kind of unrealistic. It's much easier to toilet-train humans. And maybe this is just wild speculation on my part, but most of those animals are herbivores and they don't carry around the sort of pathogens in their digestive systems that humans do. I could well be off the mark there.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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moonspots
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PostSat Aug 22, 2020 9:10 am 
Ski wrote:
And maybe this is just wild speculation on my part, but most of those animals are herbivores and they don't carry around the sort of pathogens in their digestive systems that humans do. I could well be off the mark there.
Ski, I suspect that you're correct there. I don't know why exactly, but it SEEMS to be about right.

"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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80skeys
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PostSat Aug 22, 2020 9:25 am 
Drinking stream water that contained cholera bacteria would not be a problem if filtering it with a Katadyne first. But cholera bacteria only survives in ice for a few weeks, so I wonder whether it's even possible for it to become endemic in Rocky mountain streams?

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