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Slugman It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 16874 | TRs | Pics
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:01 am
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Local and state governments can only control what happens here. How is WA going to ban packaging from a national company?
Also, I question the “equally polluting” assumption. Plastic bags more easily blow away, end up in water, and resemble food for some animals like sea turtles.
Also, we should do what we can, and not refrain from that because other things aren’t being done.
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Anne Elk BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018 Posts: 2419 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:19 pm
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Randito wrote: | Single use plastic bags have been identified as problematic to sea turtles and other marine life. Sea turtles confuse plastic bags with jellyfish and eat them -- with fatal results. Whales have also been found dead with large volumes of plastic waste in their stomachs. |
I don't dispute this, but I believe the main source of plastic pollution in the ocean comes from ships and fishing boats, which are allowed to dump trash overboard when outside of territorial waters. Anyone who works on commercial ships knows this. It was done on NOAA ships I worked on. No cost and no storage problem vs. port dump fees. In a different thread earlier this year someone posted a PR video from a cruise line showing their hi-tech waste disposal/recycle systems, but they are exceptions to the rule.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:33 pm
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Anne Elk wrote: | I don't dispute this, but I believe the main source of plastic pollution in the ocean comes from ships and fishing boats, which are allowed to dump trash overboard when outside of territorial waters. Anyone who works on commercial ships knows this. It was done on NOAA ships I worked on. No cost and no storage problem vs. port dump fees. In a different thread earlier this year someone posted a PR video from a cruise line showing their hi-tech waste disposal/recycle systems, but they are exceptions to the rule. |
I'm sure that garbage dumping by ships of of various sorts (other than garbage barges) contribute to the problem.
I'm not seeing data to support the idea that it is the major source, rather this is what I found:
Quote: | The main sources of marine plastic are land-based, from urban and storm runoff, sewer overflows, beach visitors, inadequate waste disposal and management, industrial activities, construction and illegal dumping. Ocean-based plastic originates mainly from the fishing industry, nautical activities and aquaculture. |
https://www.iucn.org/resources/issues-briefs/marine-plastics
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7727 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:54 pm
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I don't think the plastic shopping bags choking whales and sea turtles could have come from anywhere but land. They don't have Safeways and QFCs on ships.
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JonnyQuest Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2013 Posts: 593 | TRs | Pics
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And yet another study shows that a vast majority of (broader definition) "micro plastics" in the ocean is vulcanized rubber particles from vehicle tires. It's never easy to know what to believe.
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7727 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:54 am
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neek Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2011 Posts: 2337 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle, WA |
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neek
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Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:57 pm
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One word: biodepolymerization
Or just stop producing and consuming crap that doesn't actually enhance our lives.
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Kim Brown Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
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Anne Elk wrote: | don't dispute this, but I believe the main source of plastic pollution in the ocean comes from ships and fishing boats, which are allowed to dump trash overboard when outside of territorial waters. Anyone who works on commercial ships knows this. |
Sure; but Washington state can only regulate what it can regulate. I'm happy with the plastic bag ban. Low hanging fruit. Change what we can now, while also working on more difficult regulations and laws and habits that will take years to change.
Is there something happening federally or internationally that is advocating new federal or international laws on dumping? I don't know, but if you do, spill it (no pun intended; really, but it is sorta clever)
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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coldrain108 Thundering Herd
Joined: 05 Aug 2010 Posts: 1858 | TRs | Pics Location: somewhere over the rainbow |
neek wrote: | One word: biodepolymerization
Or just stop producing and consuming crap that doesn't actually enhance our lives. |
but our economy is based on producing useless garbage. How many busy work jobs are out there where the person's "pride of work" is more important than what they actually produce?
Is it better to give a man a living wage to not produce garbage or is it better to have him work at the Mylar balloon factory to "earn" that living wage while creating garbage that is of no use to anyone? Actually it is a net detriment to the quality of life for all on the planet. (I say Mylar balloon as an example because I just collected a bag of balloon garbage from the MRNP back country )
Idle hands may be the devils playground, but mindlessly busy hands are his workshop.
If what is created is not of a net benefit - why?
Drastic change in societal attitude needed.
Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.
Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:24 pm
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neek wrote: | One word: biodepolymerization |
H'mmm. Two things:
1) The compostable plastic bags we use for our food waste collection are far too flimsy for me to trust putting a bunch of expensive food into. My experience with compostable tableware at a corporate cafeteria also left much room for improvement.
2) If compostable items sturdiness is improved enough to address durability issues.... will it still be biodegradable enough to address the issue marine life choking on plastic bags?
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neek Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2011 Posts: 2337 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle, WA |
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neek
Member
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Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:03 pm
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Randito wrote: | 2) If compostable items sturdiness is improved enough to address durability issues.... will it still be biodegradable enough to address the issue marine life choking on plastic bags? |
Probably not; I wasn't aware that was even the point of it. I was more referring to the idea that we're going to bioengineer some microorganism to consume normal plastic waste. More technology to solve the problems technology created. (Sometimes a fine and necessary thing; sometimes you just shouldn't have done the harmful thing in the first place.) But I read somewhere that compostable plastic releases a lot of methane when thrown in a landfill--which is where most of it probably ends up. So, questionable whether it's an overall good thing. My preference would still be to reduce excess plastic, particularly that which only serves marketing purposes.
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