Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > The Catch-22 of Energy Storage
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
Parked Out
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 508 | TRs
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Parked Out
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 16, 2014 9:57 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
drm wrote:
I hardly consider Forbes to be the font of wisdom, but it does not seem to be justified to use it EROEI some kind of key measure for energy generation.

It's definitely true that a wide range of values can be found in the literature for the various energy systems, but the Weissbach et al paper takes pains to make apples-to-apples comparisons.  Much of the paper is discussion of their methodology and justifications for the necessary assumptions, inclusions and exclusions that go into such an analysis.  The data they used is published online and is continually being updated as new information becomes available.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aux2QwQckeWEdE9UbHNKR3l6THItNi1RTUdxa1RrdUE#gid=0

--------------
John
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Malachai Constant
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 14836 | TRs
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny
Malachai Constant
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 16, 2014 10:53 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
If the libertarians could just figure out that "ambiant static electricity motor" we could solve all our problems. :doh:of course they would probably take it and start their own utopia somewhere like Colorado doh.gif

--------------
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Parked Out
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 508 | TRs
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Parked Out
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 16, 2014 12:31 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Malachai Constant wrote:
If the libertarians could just figure out that "ambiant static electricity motor" we could solve all our problems. :doh:of course they would probably take it and start their own utopia somewhere like Colorado doh.gif

If only Lyndon LaRouche could get his hands on some dilithium crystals, we'd be home free....in a galaxy far, far away...

--------------
John
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12000 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
  Top

Member
PostWed Dec 17, 2014 1:14 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Parked Out wrote:
It's definitely true that a wide range of values can be found in the literature for the various energy systems, but the Weissbach et al paper takes pains to make apples-to-apples comparisons.  Much of the paper is discussion of their methodology and justifications for the necessary assumptions, inclusions and exclusions that go into such an analysis.  The data they used is published online and is continually being updated as new information becomes available.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aux2QwQckeWEdE9UbHNKR3l6THItNi1RTUdxa1RrdUE#gid=0

We're running into the same wall on this as with economics. There must be some way to that free lunch in spite of the fact that the Big Plans do not generate the surplus necessary to even sustain itself. There's a *reason* systems which cannot generate sufficient surplus are not successful in the marketplace. Doubtless the web of subsidies in all directions hides this clarity, which is the reason subsidies for all energy sources should be ended. It would reveal the actual viability of all competing sources.

People mistake affluence and technology based upon surplus as simply a given of modernity or something, and decide it doesn't matter how many sticks you  ram into the spokes, the bike will keep going because you want it to.

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Parked Out
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 508 | TRs
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Parked Out
  Top

Member
PostWed Dec 17, 2014 7:39 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
MtnGoat wrote:
We're running into the same wall on this as with economics. There must be some way to that free lunch in spite of the fact that the Big Plans do not generate the surplus necessary to even sustain itself. There's a *reason* systems which cannot generate sufficient surplus are not successful in the marketplace. Doubtless the web of subsidies in all directions hides this clarity, which is the reason subsidies for all energy sources should be ended. It would reveal the actual viability of all competing sources.

Any reading recommendations on the EROI concept in economics?  Sounds interesting.

I've heard Bill Gates complain that subsidies in the US tend to focus on deployment rather than R&D, which certainly seems like poor policy.  I think we would be better served by investing in our national labs & such so that when the currently-cheap energy sources aren't cheap anymore, we'd be better prepared to deploy the next thing, e.g., 4th-gen nuclear.  Seems like that might be an appropriate way to support our manufacturing sector and stay smart technologically, as opposed to how we do it now.

This is a bit off-topic (although there's a thorium connection) but the rare-earths situation in the US is almost nauseating:


--------------
John
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Pyrites
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 1394 | TRs
Location: South Sound
Pyrites
  Top

Member
PostFri Nov 06, 2020 11:12 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
A new, to me, energy storage system.

Simplified explanation video.


Plant under construction

50 MW peak x 250MW/hr storage.

https://highviewpower.com/news_announcement/highview-power-breaks-ground-on-250mwh-cryobattery-long-duration-energy-storage-facility/

Best.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > The Catch-22 of Energy Storage
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy