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Anne Elk
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PostFri Nov 06, 2020 8:12 pm 
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This just in:  Durkan proposes $5.6M to address trash in Seattle Parks, public spaces

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"There are yahoos out there.  It’s why we can’t have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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Cyclopath
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PostSat Nov 07, 2020 7:30 pm 
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Damian wrote:
I appreciate everyone keeping this thread civil.  I felt the topic of homeless folks living in parks is relevant as there are many trails in city parks and green belts.  I have no doubt the number of homeless camps in more conventional hiking areas will be increasing.  We need to talk about this.  Thx all.

Tinkham Road seems to have several permanent camps.  That'll probably change now that winter is rolling in.
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Randito
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PostSat Nov 07, 2020 9:26 pm 
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FWIW: We visited Cal Anderson and Greenlake parks today to cheer, clap and toot the car horn among the celebration.   

Lots of tents setup in a pretty permanent arrangement.   At the Greenlake pool building there are a number of "shower trailers" with a sign stating that priority for shower usage was for people experiencing homelessness.

I wonder if the occupants of "Hoovervilles" during the Great Depression were viewed with the same level of scorn that seems prevalent now or whether the attitude of "There but for the grace of God go I" was more prevalent.
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treeswarper
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PostSun Nov 08, 2020 5:40 am 
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From what I've read, Hoovervilles were often raided and then burned down.  Folks were told to move on.  The residents were people who had no other choice.  They were not addicts, although yes, there were probably some exceptions, and the dust bowl and depression were the cause of their homelessness.

Remember, the banks failed, folks lost their savings, property and employment was scarce.  They either moved in with more fortunate family or were out on their own to survive.  There was a bit of "Relief" from the government, but not much--not like we have now.

My folks were survivors. Both families lived in Warshington and always had a house, but it wasn't easy and my mom seldom talked about it.  In this part of the country, they could and did poach wild game for food.  That was their  safety net.  The game wardens knew what was going on, but looked the other way.

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treeswarper
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PostWed Nov 11, 2020 6:26 am 
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Moses Lake is going to try.  But no heat?

unheated shacks

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Ski
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PostWed Nov 11, 2020 8:41 am 
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Quote:
I wonder if the occupants of "Hoovervilles" during the Great Depression were viewed with the same level of scorn that seems prevalent now or whether the attitude of "There but for the grace of God go I" was more prevalent.

There were "Hoovervilles" across a wide swath of the American landscape, the largest of them being the one occupied by the "Bonus Army", which was demolished and its residents driven out by General Douglas MacArthur at the order of then President Herbert Hoover.

As to whether they were met with the same level of scorn, probably not quite as much, but that could well have been because most of the common people were all in the same boat, and (with the exception of a small elite minority) there wasn't such a huge disparity between the haves and have-nots.

All things considered, comparing the conditions of the 1930s and today is really apples and oranges.

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostWed Nov 11, 2020 9:40 am 
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Ski wrote:
Quote:
I wonder if the occupants of "Hoovervilles" during the Great Depression were viewed with the same level of scorn that seems prevalent now or whether the attitude of "There but for the grace of God go I" was more prevalent.

There were "Hoovervilles" across a wide swath of the American landscape, the largest of them being the one occupied by the "Bonus Army", which was demolished and its residents driven out by General Douglas MacArthur at the order of then President Herbert Hoover.

As to whether they were met with the same level of scorn, probably not quite as much, but that could well have been because most of the common people were all in the same boat, and (with the exception of a small elite minority) there wasn't such a huge disparity between the haves and have-nots.

All things considered, comparing the conditions of the 1930s and today is really apples and oranges.

Ahh, according to my brain, Eisenhower and Patton were also part of the military group that chased out the Bonus Army.

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Brian R
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PostThu Nov 12, 2020 8:01 pm 
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Damian wrote:
I'm curious which heroin or meth users are not already experiencing serious consequences for their choices.

The problem is that the rest of us are experiencing the consequences too. For choices we didn't make or vote for. Born and raised here, my wife and I both. Sixty years. We are leaving this state for safer environs with better government; will be gone by July. Washington State is lost.
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PostFri Nov 13, 2020 7:18 am 
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Brian R wrote:
We are leaving this state for safer environs with better government

Haven't you heard?  The Canadians won't let you in.   clown.gif

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Randito
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PostFri Nov 13, 2020 7:56 am 
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Brian R wrote:
Damian wrote:
I'm curious which heroin or meth users are not already experiencing serious consequences for their choices.

The problem is that the rest of us are experiencing the consequences too. For choices we didn't make or vote for. Born and raised here, my wife and I both. Sixty years. We are leaving this state for safer environs with better government; will be gone by July. Washington State is lost.

Where would that be?
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Chief Joseph
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PostFri Nov 13, 2020 12:11 pm 
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Idaho, Montana, North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming, Utah, Kansas, Maybe Colorado but no longer Arizona, New Mexico, and especially not Minnesota, not sure what happened there..

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Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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treeswarper
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PostFri Nov 13, 2020 12:52 pm 
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Lots of people heading fer Idatucky.  There was quite a news article on how there is a major migration there from Collyfonia.  Idatucky's having some Covid problems right now and resorted to a plea of Wear a Mask to Protect Veterans.  Dunno how that worked.  Badly, I bet.

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Brucester
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PostFri Nov 13, 2020 2:05 pm 
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Imagine all of the safety issues associated with camping along freeways, beneath bridges, on top retaining walls and sanitation issues that someone living on the "streets" would encounter day to day. Simple things like fall hazards, no lighting, lack of water and dirt posing it's own risk. Rodents, insects and UV rays.

Apocalyptic conditions. Living without basics. Adjusting the fringe to create borderline tolerable conditions.

These reflections made me appreciate the resilience of folks living this way.
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Anne Elk
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PostFri Nov 13, 2020 2:59 pm 
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Brucester wrote:
Imagine all of the safety issues associated with camping along freeways, beneath bridges, on top retaining walls and sanitation issues that someone living on the "streets" would encounter day to day. Simple things like fall hazards, no lighting, lack of water and dirt posing it's own risk. Rodents, insects and UV rays. ... Apocalyptic conditions. Living without basics.

This is why the San Diego "FEMA shelters" model I mentioned earlier would be a heck of a lot better in every way, with some covid adjustments.

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Anne Elk
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PostFri Nov 13, 2020 3:05 pm 
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Here's something I can't figure out:  I spent two months this year and a month last year in my hometown, Buffalo, NY. (Necessary, family-related travel, getting there was a covid-paranoia nightmare.)  Buffalo is one of the poorest cities in the country for its size (cities with pop. over 200K).  I drove thru some of the neighborhoods which in my younger days were considered "unsafe" b/c of the poverty and attendant crime rates.  The city was pristine.  The parks were clean.  I saw nothing even remotely resembling the tent encampments and trash piles we have here.  I'm so curious about it that I plan to investigate further.  Don't make jokes about the weather being the reason; it's not that.

For comparison (2011 stats): Buffalo ranked 11th in poverty rates for its size, with 30.9% below the poverty line. Seattle, which is more than 2x its size, ranked 91st with 14.8% below the poverty line. I found additional 2017 stats for the greater Buffalo-Niagara Falls metropolitan area which showed a concentrated poverty rate of 26.2%.  10.7% of all neighborhoods were considered poor, and there was a 5.9% increase in concentrated poverty between 2011-17.  This increase was the largest of any US metro area when the national poverty rate fell by 1.6% for the same period.

I don't think Buffalo has some kind of "secret management sauce" that enables them to deal better with poverty. My gut feeling about the differences is that Seattle once had a certain amount of economic "equilibrium" (that Buffalo still has) that enabled more people with marginal incomes to remain housed, and the hyper-rapid influx of high-paying tech jobs and concomitant "land rush" here forced a huge number of people into homelessness in a relatively short period of time. Does this explain why the large numbers of our homeless are also drug-addicted and/or mentally ill?  I don't know.

One thing I do know is that the tech influx and the land rush were cash cows for the Puget Sound metro area and it seems our officials squandered all the extra cash somewhere.  In Seattle, a sufficient amt of it certainly didn't go to low-income housing or social services, or needed infrastructure ( like the Magnolia Bridge, et al).  Or maybe it did but the programs were mis-managed.  Supposedly over 50% of city employees in Seattle are now making six-figure salaries.  Is this "normal"?  Is this OK?  Council members not long ago voted themselves an additional aide each b/c three per member suddenly wasn't enough.

But I digress.  In re the relevant issue for this thread - the condition of our parks - remember all those park levies Seattle residents kept voting for?  Where did the money go?  As of last year, Carkeek had only ONE full-time, dedicated maintenance worker that I'm aware of.  The homeless encampments proliferate in our parks b/c the city allows it. No regular patrols, no enforcement.  As it is, most if not all of the conservation work is done by volunteers - at least 5 groups: the foresters, fish people, trail crew, gardeners, and orchardists.  It's pretty frustrating for volunteers to do all that work and then the city allows people to trash it.

I'll stop now.  I could say more but will save the rest for my district rep.  rant.gif  blah.gif

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