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timberghost
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PostMon Nov 16, 2020 10:05 am 
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Overall how many people actually have had bear issues with regards to food. I know I haven't and are out there alot and don't use bear canisters. But maybe I am lucky
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talapus
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PostMon Nov 16, 2020 10:48 am 
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Kiliki, what precipitated my question was the hope for a warm beverage/cereal in the morning before getting out of my warm tent to start clearing snow and such.  It is not something that bothers be in the summer somehow, maybe because I am used to it.

But on balance, I've come to the same conclusion: it's not worth changing my habits.
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Pyrites
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PostMon Nov 16, 2020 11:21 am 
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kiliki wrote:
I get the sentiment that we don't have to be as stringent as in places that have brown bears, and that you don't have to be as stringent in winter.

But really, what is so hard about what we do in summer than makes it such a hassle in winter? And given that you still have to protect food from rodents/other animals, which as someone pointed out are probably THE issue with food storage, what exactly do people want to "slack" on?

And given what we know about bears not hibernating when there are food sources, and how much more bear activity we see around camps these days (with new bear canister regulations and closed backcountry camps), it seems well within the realm of reality to think bears might up their winter activity around here.

In summer a bunch of snow doesn’t fall in your face and down your collar if you try to hang something.

Best.
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kiliki
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PostMon Nov 16, 2020 1:30 pm 
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Pyrites wrote:
kiliki wrote:
I get the sentiment that we don't have to be as stringent as in places that have brown bears, and that you don't have to be as stringent in winter.

But really, what is so hard about what we do in summer than makes it such a hassle in winter? And given that you still have to protect food from rodents/other animals, which as someone pointed out are probably THE issue with food storage, what exactly do people want to "slack" on?

And given what we know about bears not hibernating when there are food sources, and how much more bear activity we see around camps these days (with new bear canister regulations and closed backcountry camps), it seems well within the realm of reality to think bears might up their winter activity around here.

In summer a bunch of snow doesn’t fall in your face and down your collar if you try to hang something.

Best.

This is why Ursacks are great. Or canisters, I guess, though they are bulky. I always found it hard to hang food properly since I so often camped in subalpine areas, and hanging still leaves your food vulnerable to rodents. Solves the snow issue in winter too.
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kiliki
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PostMon Nov 16, 2020 1:36 pm 
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talapus wrote:
Kiliki, what precipitated my question was the hope for a warm beverage/cereal in the morning before getting out of my warm tent to start clearing snow and such.  It is not something that bothers be in the summer somehow, maybe because I am used to it.

But on balance, I've come to the same conclusion: it's not worth changing my habits.

Oh, I see. But assuming your aren't cooking in your tent since that is dangerous--I didn't think it was unwise to enjoy a warm beverage in my tent in any season. I always learned never to store food in the tent, or keep scented items in there, or go in smelling like food, but I guess I don't see the difference between having a cup of tea in my tent as opposed to next to it.
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SteeperColder
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PostMon Nov 16, 2020 3:26 pm 
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times I have made coffee & oatmeal in vestibule of tent on cold early morning = 100%
times I have stashed my food & cook area 50-yards from tent = 25%
times I have brought bear spray on solo trip just to sleep better = 75%
times I have had to use it, or had any issues = 0%

Things I have learned I really need to worry about:
- hurting myself badly on solo trip
- not enough water on super strenuous hot day
- cell phone charge
- car vandalism in parking lot

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"You won't find reasonable men on the tops of tall mountains" - Hunter S. Thompson
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cdestroyer
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PostMon Nov 16, 2020 3:42 pm 
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washington and setch all included but hereya in montana the 'griz' have a tendency to wake during the late winter months to forage. yes'm have seen just that and surprise surprise but a big male griz standing on hind legs foraging up the base of a tree is a sight! (darn but I left my kodak at home)
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coldrain108
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PostMon Nov 16, 2020 4:19 pm 
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kiliki wrote:
This is why Ursacks are great. Or canisters, I guess, though they are bulky. I always found it hard to hang food properly since I so often camped in subalpine areas, and hanging still leaves your food vulnerable to rodents.

I haven't hung food since like 2001 or so.  I use a Garcia canister if out more than 5 days (or if my wife is coming along), bareboxer contender for 5 or less days.  Each fit inside a medium sized Zpacks pack along with everything else I need for the number of days out.

I've witnessed the rodent misadventures.  Another couple didn't want the weight penalty of the canisters so they hung their food, they got mouse turds in their oatmeal instead.  3 nights in a row they got raided.  Mice must have crawled down the hang rope and had a party in their food bag.  Plus it rained pigs and chickens one night, so they had to do the hang dance in the pouring rain.   I just put mine down and walk away from it...and all was in fine condition the next morning.

I've been happy that I own canisters on a couple of occasions in the ONP as the WIC cans were all out, they made people wait until one got returned. 

My favorite piece of gear! A sleep aid.


Garcia canister in Cameron Basin 2018
Bareboxer at the Dosewallips trailhead 2019

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"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch and do nothing"  - Albert Einstein
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kiliki
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PostMon Nov 16, 2020 5:34 pm 
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SteeperColder wrote:
Things I have learned I really need to worry about:
- hurting myself badly on solo trip
- not enough water on super strenuous hot day
- cell phone charge
- car vandalism in parking lot

I agree there's no need for bearanoia. But I think this is all a valuable conversation to have in terms of keeping bears wild and safe. I'm troubled by the number of bear interactions that humans are causing, by the number of places that now require canisters that never did, by the backcountry campsites that have had to be closed due to bears getting into things, by the number of bears hit by cars this year (maybe this has nothing to do with humans, but maybe they are hanging out nearer to roads because they are being attracted by careless people with food. Like the people I saw on Sunrise Rd this year tossing an apple core and peanut shells out their window). Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me will tell me I shouldn't be drinking tea (or eating oatmeal, which I have done) in the tent.
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kiliki
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PostMon Nov 16, 2020 5:36 pm 
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coldrain108 wrote:
I just put mine down and walk away from it...and all was in fine condition the next morning.

Same with my Ursack. We've had camps where mice ran all over our tent all night (Lake Sally Ann, Lily Basin in Goat Rocks where even the pikas were...assertive) but they never got into our properly knotted Ursack.
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Randito
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PostMon Nov 16, 2020 5:57 pm 
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I got an Ursak 10+ years ago.    So far no bear has tried to get into it, but rodents have tried and been foiled.   The Ursak does however have some marks on from the tiny sharp teeth trying to gnaw their way in. 

A bunch of years ago, some Jones Island raccoons were trying to raid my food cache -- there was no way they could penitrate it -- but did that stop the three of them from loudly fighting over which of them would get the spoils?   After an hour of listening to the snarling,  I got up to chase them away.   I thought that just appearing and shining a light on them would be enough -- nope.   Then I tried proding the biggest one with a kayak paddle -- nope.   When I fianlly started whacking the biggest one with hard two handed kayak paddle blows -- they moved off.
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