[Cyclopath]

[Randito]

FWIW The reader board signs along I-90 have for at least the last decade displayed the message "Hyak Sno-Park Full" from time to time. So it's not a particularly new issue. It has been getting progressively more frequently filled to the brim. This year with COVID the level of crowding has exploded. I think there are a combination of factors: 1) There is little else to do with kiddos, movie theaters, museums, indoor play spaces, etc are closed. 2) Kiddos (and adults) are crawling the walls to get out after weeks of zoom school/meetings 3) Nobody is carpooling, so there are at least twice as many cars per person recreating. For example the trips I organize , would typically have folks arriving in carpool of 3-4 people, but now it's 1 person per vehicle, with the occasional cohabitating couple. I certainly think we need more sno-parks, especially "Snow Play" sno-parks. There are currently only two in the state, Hyak and Lake Wenatchee. The lack of places for kids to go sledding leads all sorts of mayhem, with the WSP and county sheriff's being dispatched to chase people off hills on the sides of freeway ramps. Of course building new sno-play facilities is like any other state construction project, it will take years of planning and the state will get sued multiple tine during the planning process by various NIMBY type groups.

[Cyclopath]

I would pay $10 more for my groomed snow park permit to fund free snow play areas. Free because that's what the user group they would be for expects. The sledders don't pay to use Cabin Creek, and most of the snowshoers who come for Amabilis show their Discover Pass. (At least that's been observation as a nosy skier who can't understand why anybody would pay to walk up that mountain.) Exit 47 is currently one of these places, the road on the N side of the freeway going to Franklin Falls and Alpental. The road closes in winter, apparently isn't plowed anymore (?) and is used by families to get out and enjoy the snow. I'm amazed when I drive by at how many cars are parked there.

[Brucester]

Snoqualmie Pass recreation areas need an overhaul. IMO Come on, so close to a major city and activities seem so 1980's up there....Make a sledding area with lifts!!! Winter camping opportunities for tenters with rest room facilities not wanting to be near snow machines at SnoParks. Legal winter parking for snow shoer's going to Silver? Aerial Tram up Guye maybe a stretch but could be neat? Snoqualmie and Stevens are sooo tame and maybe lame?

[Randito]

[rossb]

I ran across a pretty good example of the problem yesterday. I drove up to Kendall, but got a late start (for reasons I won't go into) and it was essentially full. Cars were turning around, while a handful of people were waiting for someone to exit the road towards Gold Creek (presumably there were cars parked all the way there, and beyond, to the end of the road). I didn't go on to Amabalis, but should have. Instead I decided to go up to Talapus Lake trailhead. I figured I would drive until the snow got deep, then walk/ski the road. The road was closed about half way to the junction (with the Mason Lake Trail). The road hadn't been plowed, and there was a car stuck there (I had a shovel to help her out, but she had already called for help). Despite the road being closed at that point (with very clear signs) people had driven past it. I didn't. I walked the road until I could ski it. Other cars came up the road and I gave them a mouthful about the road being closed. They turned around. It was an OK day (slush city) but made worse by the neither-here-nor-there nature of the closure. If it had been open, I probably would have gone to the top (more snow, less slush, while poking around in the woods). If it had been closed off better below, then the skiing would have been a lot better. My main point is this would be a good place for a Sno-Park. Just block off both roads at the fork (an area where people can turn around fairly easily). Then plow it to that point. A very high percentage of the people at Kendal don't go very far from the car. They have little kids, and they just want to make a snowman, or slide down tiny slopes. That was also the case with this road. While I can sympathize with Cyclopath, cross country skiers are greatly outnumbered by snowshoers and folks who just want to walk a road and play in the snow. These are the folks that have very few places to go, and in an act of desperation (and/or ignorance) end up at Cabin Creek. A Sno-Park at Talapus/Mason Lake would provide a lot of people exactly what they are looking for, with a shorter drive to boot. It would start pretty low, but if you are on snowshoes, that's fine (and again, a lot of people are just tromping in their boots until it gets too deep). If they plowed the road, there would be quite a bit of parking, as it is quite a bit wider than the road to Gold Creek. (In both cases, they need to manage the parking better, and only allow parking on one side of the street -- it must be especially irritating for folks who live in the cabins in Gold Creek). I regret that I didn't try the exit 47 area. That brings me to another issue: ignorance. It is pretty easy to find SnoParks. But areas where you can legally park and enjoy the snow are found by word of mouth, social media or websites like this. More SnoParks would help, but the cost is very high ($20) if you are only going out for one day. Having some free SnoParks (which is essentially what places like exit 47 and Foss River are) would greatly improve the situation. Given that the existing SnoParks are overflowing, I would imagine funding wouldn't be a huge issue.

[Randito]

In past decades there used to be a more sno-parks on the West side -- not I-90 -- but on HWY-2 and the Mountain Loop. But they are no longer maintained as sno-parks. There are a few sno-parks on the West Side along HWY-410, HWY-706, HWY-20 and HWY-542. A number of these feature a high and a low parking area -- reflecting the variable snow line on the west side. IME as someone that travels to Snoqualmie Pass weekly during the winter -- the variability of snow depth at Exits 42, 45 and 47 makes them a sub optimal sno-park location -- most years it only has decent coverage for a few weeks. Also having a suitable sledding hill at any of these locations would require clear cutting , followed by stump removal. Also given how many people have been killed and injured by avalanches on Granite Mtn over the decades -- plowing the Granite Mtn parking lot at Exit 47 for use as a sno-park seems like a recipe for luring more people ignorant of avalanche hazards into trouble.

[rossb]

[Randito]

[rossb]

[Foist]

[Stefan]

[Cyclopath]

I had to go to the vet this morning, so I got a late start. The electronic billboard signs all said "all I90 snow parks full," I thought either they only meant Hyak and Gold Creek, or that they wouldn't be full when I got there, maybe both. Even Lake Easton (70 miles from Seattle!) was turning people away. Cabin Creek had people from the snow parks asking folks not to park in the freeway interchange. In the parking lot there were a lot of new No Parking signs and "NO PARKING" spray painted in the snow on the S side of the lot. A line of about 30 cars parked there anyway. The people working there were very apologetic. They were also thanking people who actually paid. They were bemoaning the cars parked so that emergency vehicles wouldn't be able to get by. The trails were in good shape, except the south loop which is a polished trench with a lot of urine on the trail. I haven't seen that one groomed in a couple years, I think it's been abandoned to the snowshoers.

[Foist]

I was also there today with the kids. We got there around 11. Those people in the orange vests were telling people to turn around because it was so full but the reality is there were a lot of people leaving already so we just ignored the orange vests and got a pretty good (and legal) spot. There was a policewoman writing tickets to all the cars parked on the south side of the road (where it says "no parking") and the orange vest people said that the cars were going to get towed. We did the Amabilis trail which is somewhat less mobbed than the loop trails. But the number of snowshoers there was crazy to me. Why would anyone want to trudge up and down a gradual logging road in the fog in snowshoes while skiers whiz by? I also came across one dad and kid walking on the lower trail with a sled right down the middle, similar to what the OP described. Maybe the craziest was a woman just walking down the middle of the Amabilis trail *carrying* skis. But we managed to have a pretty good time considering the weekend battle.

[rossb]

Ha, I was there too. I thought I got an early start, but between needing gas and going on 520 from I-5 to the UW (not realizing it was closed) was delayed enough to hit a crowd. I could tell Kendall/Gold Creek was already packed. I almost parked where they painted the "No Parking". Someone was parking there (ahead of me) so I pulled in behind. Fortunately, someone behind me pointed out the small "No Parking" sign (I'm sure I've seen the signs before, but I usually get there in time to avoid all that). I managed to find a spot at the overflow lot (which means more walking). I skied up to Amabalis and it wasn't too bad. I can understand why someone would snowshoe Amabalis on a busy day -- it was the only thing available. You hit Kendall, realize it is full, and figure that Cabin Creek might have some room. It did, but just barely, and probably not for long. I feel worse for the folks on A. T. gear -- they didn't even seem to be exploring the (few) opportunities for steeper, fresh snow in the area. It wasn't until later in the day that officials spray painted the sides. I also saw a fair number of tickets. Crazy day.