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RodF
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PostThu May 04, 2017 1:14 am 
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RangerSciacca wrote:
I always lament the fact that the queets and hoh/sol duc trails aren't more easily connected to the rest of trail network.

It might be of interest that the Park did map two trail routes connecting the Queets Trail to the Skyline Trail: up the ridge below Hee Haw Creek to the Skyline about 2 miles NE of Kimta Peak (map OLY2127D dated 1951 for the draft Master Plan), and up the ridge between Hee Haw and Saghalie Creeks to Lake Beauty (map OLY2127E dated 1954, approved in the Master Plan, funded in 1957 under Mission 66).  Link to trail plan map.

These maps depict 215 miles of new trails the Park planned to build to complete its trail system.  The Queets Trail was proposed to extend up into Queets Basin and connect to the Elwha Basin Trail and thence to the Elwha Trail.  From the Queets, a trail up Paradise Creek and over to the South Fork Hoh Trail and from the South Fork Hoh up Jackson Creek and down Mt. Tom Creek to the Hoh Trail were mapped.  (The Mt. Tom - Jackson Creek trail was almost completed before WW-II.)

The Mission 66 plan was funded, but it went to constructing major automobile campgrounds (Fairholm, Heart o'the Hills, Kalaloch, Mora, Graves Creek), the Rain Forest Visitors Center, reconstructing about a hundred miles of existing roads and a hundred miles of existing trails.  It built the Park we have today, to accomodate visitors in automobiles, not the Park originally envisioned in 1938, "a wilderness Park, a trail Park".

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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PostThu May 04, 2017 10:47 am 
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^ now that's a new one for me. where are those maps? up at PA in the archives?

Paradise to So. Fork Hoh?
SRSLY?
The south face of Pelton Peak is vertical. javman had a route scoped out a few years ago using Google Earth images - he was going to approach Pelton's northwest flank by following the ridge spur up from the Harlow lakes. Don't believe that trip actually happened. dizzy.gif

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RangerSciacca
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PostThu May 04, 2017 11:42 am 
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Wow, thanks RodF! I'm not surprised that they planned to link queets and skyline--seems natural--but the trail headed north to the hoh is an amazing concept. Along with the Snider-Jackson trail, it would have linked all the west-side trails from Queets to Calawah!

I have to agree with Ski--going up all the way up paradise creek seems crazy, but if the trail traversed over to Bob creek, there is a 4200ft pass and a nice lake...
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PostThu May 04, 2017 12:51 pm 
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^ Harlow is generally accessed via the north side. See javman's trip report. You go all the way up the 3000 line on the Queets-Clearwater divide - up past Yahoo Lake - up to the easternmost hairpin turn on the mainline - cut off from there due east - gain the ridge crest - drop down and traverse around the basin in an east-northeast direction, circle back down around the eastern end of the basin (just to the north of the Harlow Lakes) and then ascend up along vertical, slippery, wet, moss-covered rock, devils club, and underbrush to get to the Lakes.
Keith Flanery and Mike Danisciewicz (two NPS rangers) went up to the lakes from the south side - breaking off from the Queets at Harlow Creek and following the drainage up - the only thing I can remember from Keith's description verbatim was him saying "We got cliffed out several times." They weren't carrying huge packs - they went up to scope out an elk hunter's camp that had been constructed at the lower lake out of dimensional lumber and blue plastic tarps (which gave away the location when a helicopter surveyed the area.) The structure sported a small cast-iron wood stove. They had to fly in and haul all the junk out.

The south face of that ridge is pretty horrific in regard to "jungle": it's on the windward side and gets the sun - the underbrush is relentless.

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Pyrites
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PostThu May 04, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Mount Tom? Over the ridge on its west side? Once on the ridge it's not too hard to travel. Dragon Lake is a nice, not exemplary, little lake. I like that a lake with fire in its name is the place I got to see something burning bounce off the atomosphere and go back into space.

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RodF
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PostFri May 05, 2017 12:25 am 
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Ski wrote:
^ now that's a new one for me. where are those maps? up at PA in the archives?

Some on microfilm in NPS Technical Information Center in Denver, some on paper in OLYM archives in Port Angeles.  I uploaded scans for those interested at this link and should post these in the History forum.

Ski wrote:
Paradise to So. Fork Hoh?  SRSLY?

Yeah!  A couple of the proposed trail routes hairy.gif apparently had never been scouted, but the rest of the proposed trails are more or less well-known off-trail routes.  Most are subalpine or alpine, high elevation recreational trails.  Many were first proposed in Fred Cleator's 1929 USFS Olympic trail plan, which was not completed before NPS took over the monument in 1933 and the rest of the Park in 1938.  So Olympic in 2017 still has an incomplete 1933 trail system.

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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tinman
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PostFri May 05, 2017 7:08 am 
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As fate would have it I had a hike planned up the South Fork Hoh yesterday and re-found the junction of the Snider-Jackson and SF Hoh trails.  35 years ago there was an old enameled steel sign on a hemlock tree designating the trail.  Unfortunately I never took a picture of it then.  It's still there, inside the tree, having been grown over and folding the sign in half.
SF Hoh - Snider-Jackson trail
SF Hoh - Snider-Jackson trail
SF Hoh - Snider-Jackson trail sign
SF Hoh - Snider-Jackson trail sign

If you look closely inside the red area you can see the ends of the sign.  Someone had tried in the past to cut out the sign but failed.

I looked around briefly for any signs of the trail heading north but didn't see anything.  Next time I'll head uphill more and look around.

Oh, the trail is in great shape, recent blowdowns bucked out and brushed 8' wide.

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PostFri May 05, 2017 7:10 am 
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Fascinating..

On the color map:

Looks like they've drawn in a proposed trail from Lake Beauty down to the Queets - the topography is skewed on that map, but that would have to be down Hee Haw ridge.
Interestingly, it shows the main Queets trail "existing" past Pelton Creek and extending up past Hee Hee Creek, which (if my guess is correct) put the terminus up near Kilkelly. You posted another map somewhere which showed a telephone located along that stretch (with the trail extending up along the NORTH bank as far as Kilkelly.)

I have to wonder if there's any possibility there might be a connection between the proposed trail extending past Kilkelly along the north bank and dropping down into the Elwha Basin and that little section of trail that Ernie found way up there. That "proposed" shelter way up there looks like it could be in the vicinity of the benchmark that's shown on another map you posted previously in another thread. (Can't recall, but I believe it was an early USGS topo.)

I would assume that the Paradise Creek to South Fork Hoh route was never actually scouted out; a quick glance at the 7.5 topo makes pretty clear that would be just a wee bit difficult.

On the black & white map:

Looks like there's a route drawn in between Alta and the Skyline. I'm guessing that's a "proposed" trail.

There's a trail drawn in leading east from the top of Kloochman and dropping down to the Queets near Spruce Bottom. That trail shows up on another map you've posted here in the past. I can't tell if that's supposed to be "existing" or "proposed"

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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RodF
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PostFri May 05, 2017 2:11 pm 
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tinman wrote:
As fate would have it I had a hike planned up the South Fork Hoh yesterday and re-found the junction of the Snider-Jackson and SF Hoh trails...

Fascinating that bit of history survives, and that you know where to find it, tinman!  The 1938 Olympic National Forest map shows the trail from Jackson Ranger Station on the Hoh River to Big Flat Shelter on the South Fork Hoh River was almost complete.  Both ends of the trail are depicted on the 1948 Olympic NF map, and only the north end from Jackson R.S. on the 1939 USGS Mt. Tom sectional.

1938 Olympic NF map
1938 Olympic NF map
1948 Olympic NF map
1948 Olympic NF map
1939 USGS Mt. Tom
1939 USGS Mt. Tom

The Trail System plan map shows the planned connection via Dragon Lake to the Mt. Tom Creek Trail.

This is among the 240 miles of trails Olympic NP inherited from USFS and has since abandoned.  A list which the draft Wilderness Stewardship Plan will lengthen... or may shorten if hikers care enough?

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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RodF
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PostFri May 05, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Ski wrote:
Looks like they've drawn in a proposed trail from Lake Beauty down to the Queets - the topography is skewed on that map, but that would have to be down Hee Haw ridge.
Interestingly, it shows the main Queets trail "existing" past Pelton Creek and extending up past Hee Hee Creek, which (if my guess is correct) put the terminus up near Kilkelly.

Realize "Hee Hee Cr." shown on these 1950s maps is now called Hee Haw Creek, so the then-existing trail extended more than 3 miles upriver of Kilkelly, into the flats between Hee Haw and Paull Creeks.

Ski wrote:
I have to wonder if there's any possibility there might be a connection between the proposed trail extending past Kilkelly along the north bank and dropping down into the Elwha Basin and that little section of trail that Ernie found way up there. That "proposed" shelter way up there looks like it could be in the vicinity of the benchmark that's shown on another map you posted previously in another thread. (Can't recall, but I believe it was an early USGS topo.)

It's only a mile further upriver to the trail climbing opposite Saghalie Creek up past Service Falls into Queets Basin, depicted running past benchmark 2253 on the 1935 and 1942 USGS Mount Olympus sectionals
Service Falls trail, 1935 USGS Mount Olympus
Service Falls trail, 1935 USGS Mount Olympus

Ernie Vail found the lower end of that trail about a decade ago, and said he wasn't certain whether it was a built trail or an elk trail.  A USGS benchmark was set alongside it and others below and above it, so it was real.  That's evidence a hike-able route once existed all the way up into lower Queets Basin.

Ski wrote:
There's a trail drawn in leading east from the top of Kloochman and dropping down to the Queets near Spruce Bottom. That trail shows up on another map you've posted here in the past. I can't tell if that's supposed to be "existing" or "proposed"

Existing.  It was the original trail up Kloochman Rock, and appeared on the 1918 Olympic NF map, the 1941 Olympic NF map, and others,  mentioned previously.

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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PostFri May 05, 2017 5:48 pm 
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ahhh... I'd forgotten about the mix-up on Hee Hee and Hee Haw on the early maps.

RodF, regarding east-west trail from Kloochman Rock down to Spruce Bottom wrote:
"It was the original trail up Kloochman Rock..."

In one of the Doherty interviews, as I recall, it was mentioned that the crews walked up to Kloochman from the northeast corner of Andrews Field. Might have been one of the Kittredge (sp?) interviews. To further confuse the issue, they might have been referring to the Vic Andrews clearing just west of Coal Creek, and not the John Andrews clearing that is still visible on maps. (Whether that interview was with Henry and Maude Kittredge or Reed Marshall, their observations would not have been as early as 1918.)

Sam was asking me in an email months ago about a route up to Kloochman from Spruce Bottom. I don't imagine there would be much left of any "trail" there. About 10-12 years ago I bushwhacked it up along the old trail (the section that was abandoned when Carl Pangratz and crew cut the "burro re-route" between Spruce Bottom and the Upper Crossing opposite Smith Place that cuts through the alder flat) in order to photograph what I had always considered a contender with the "Big Fir" down near Coal Creek, and it was pretty rough going even though the trail had only been abandoned for a couple years.

Just a note on that "Service Falls trail" map snippet you posted just above:
Robert Wood mentioned a route up there, but did not make any statement to the effect that there was "trail".

My notes and resources are scattered (as is my memory right now) so I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here.

* I'm getting "page not found" on that second link (1941 map)

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Pyrites
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PostSun Feb 14, 2021 2:37 am 
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Conjecture, but going upstream farther, years ago I made the Mount Tom ridge upstream of Dragon Lake. Travel on the ridge was easy, once attained. Would a cross ridge trail have opened access to Dragon Lake, and farther towards Mount Tom.

Was thirsty by the time I made the lake. Camped at base of hill, and headed up in the morn. About a 1,000 up I pulled out my water bottles. Oops.
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