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dixon
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PostSun Mar 28, 2021 2:32 pm 
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Hi folks!

Ive noticed that new names of various peaks/locations etc. are showing up on the Caltopo 'MapBuilder' layer and wondered if anyone knew of how these names are allocated as they are not on the Forest Service maps. For example, within the last few months the following have appeared:

- Ravensbeak (Middle Fork)
- Wild Dare (MF)
- Cockerel Pt (MF)
- Priceless (MF)
- Easter Island (I-90)
- Lookout Point (I-90)
- Wild Dare (ALW)

Cheers.
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neek
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PostSun Mar 28, 2021 2:47 pm 
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Interesting - these are not in openstreetmap, and I ran across some speculation from a few years ago that some peaks in caltopo come from the peakbagger database (which come from a variety of sources--user-contributed by puzzlr in the case of Ravensbeak).
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RichP
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PostSun Mar 28, 2021 3:01 pm 
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neek wrote:
user-contributed by puzzlr in the case of Ravensbeak).

I believe that name is originally from Dreisbach in his Middle Fork Guide book.
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mosey
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PostSun Mar 28, 2021 4:26 pm 
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RichP wrote:
neek wrote:
user-contributed by puzzlr in the case of Ravensbeak).

I believe that name is originally from Dreisbach in his Middle Fork Guide book.

From the 1998 edition I scored at a thrift store:

There are 5 "middle mtn" peaks

Pt 3964, pt 3880 Raven Hill *(Ravensbeak)*, the lookout (high point) *(Puzzlr published a trip report as Lookout Point)*, pt 4000, pt 3586, pt 3586 (and of course the treed summit on the ridge).

Quote:
Raven Hill

Named for the raven that departed the summit when the first ascent party arrived

He neglects to mention cockerel point, instead suggesting a 4000' vertical gully route with multiple waterfalls straight to Rooster. What a fun guy he must have been.

As for the rest, the first ascent party sometimes make wordplay (perhaps Price *less* being 100 ft shorter but also a rocky prominence with a 360 view) or a portmanteau of two peak names along a ridge.

I've always thought Easter Island somewhat resembles the strangely impossibly large upright rock sculptures on Easter Island. It also fits in with the geographic theme of Machu Picchu, which is an even more prominent rock formation at the head of Hall Creek whose distinct rock fins vaguely resemble an incan headdress or maybe the mountain. That area had a lot of work done by people who've resided in these forums who can probably fill that in better.
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puzzlr
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PostSun Mar 28, 2021 10:06 pm 
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neek wrote:
these are not in openstreetmap

I'm not sure where you were looking. Many of these are in OSM and AFAIK, that's where CalTopo is picking them up from.

RichP added some good background on some of these.
  • He is right that Ravensbeak was named by Carl Dreisbach. I finally got up it in 2019 and should have written a report. There's also a rock climb named Revelation that goes straight up the rock wall. They called it Revelation Peak but because it already has a great name, that name works well for the route.
  • I called Lookout Point that name based on Dreisbach's description, but it's not on OSM. The summit of Middle Mountain is treed and without views. Lookout Point is a spectacular rocky prominence that requires an interesting class 3 scramble to ascend and has 360˚ views. BTW, "Middle Mountain" is the worst named peak the valley. I think it gets less attention because it has such a blah name. It's still ambiguous if it's "Middle Mountain" or "The Pulpit".
  • Cockerel Pt was added by OSM user aeva_io in 2020. It means "a young rooster", perfect for a sub peak of Rooster.
  • Priceless was my name. I added it after climbing a pretty direct route up to it from the Dingford trailhead.
  • Those Cedar River Divide names are from Whitebark who did a lot of work on the trails there.
BTW, I have a personally policy of never adding a name to a high point on OSM until I've actually climbed it myself and done as much research as I can to find any previous names. I think it's also a good thing not to name everything -- that would clutter up the map.

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neek
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PostMon Mar 29, 2021 6:41 am 
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puzzlr wrote:
I'm not sure where you were looking. Many of these are in OSM and AFAIK, that's where CalTopo is picking them up from.

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but I can't find Ravensbeak for example in OSM.


I do see Wild Dare and others.
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puzzlr
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PostMon Mar 29, 2021 2:33 pm 
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Well, you're right! Ravensbeak is not there on OSM (I'm on a trip with weak wifi and it's hard to pull maps up). ListsOfJohn just has it marked as "3900". Peakbagger has the name Ravensbeak. Now I'm curious where CalTopo is getting their names. After checking several others like Dungeon and SE Wright that are not on OSM but are on CalTopo I think it might be getting them from the Peakbagger database, excluding provisional peaks. Gaia Topos seem to use the names from OSM. Maybe I'll ask CalTopo on their support forum.

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dixon
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PostThu Apr 01, 2021 2:33 pm 
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Thanks for the info folks and really interesting to learn the history to the naming. I might drop a post on the Caltopo forms as it would be interesting to know if there is a ratification process on what constitutes adding a name to the official mapping layer. Haven't played around too much with OSM but prefer it after a few hours of use, cheers!
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neek
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PostSun Apr 04, 2021 3:28 pm 
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Someone recently noticed:

Peakbagger and Caltopo say "Middle Chiwaukum" and "North Chiwaukum",

OSM and Gaia say "Big McWaukum Peak" and "Mt. Baldy".

Fascinating... since both are informal as far as I know, I guess you just pick the one you like.  Easy choice for me since there are too many Baldies.
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