Forum Index > Trip Reports > Extraordinary snowpack deterioration high on Mt. Baker (Squak Glacier climb: July 22-23, 2021)
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puzzlr
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puzzlr
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PostTue Aug 10, 2021 11:10 pm 
Thanks for all the photos and the informed speculations on the cause. This is fascinating!

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drm
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drm
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PostWed Aug 11, 2021 11:26 am 
I remember seeing really deep sun cupping in the Sierra Nevada of my youth, like the 1980s. With the sun higher in the sky and far less cloud cover in the spring, I think the sun is the guilty party. So it's well named. So the sunny spring here this year got it started, and the Big Heat was the coup de grace. Like everybody is saying. I am a bit curious as to why we didn't see more localized flooding in late June. Maybe the ground was drier than usual and the larger creeks and rivers were also low and had more room to expand. Or maybe they did flow pretty hard, but we just didn't notice because we were all home hiding from the heat.

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coldrain108
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coldrain108
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PostWed Aug 11, 2021 11:58 am 
The view of Rainier from the McDonald's parking lot in Enumclaw was frightening. No snow to be seen.

Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.
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slabbyd
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PostWed Aug 11, 2021 12:07 pm 
In Bellingham temperatures were in low-mid 80's on the 6/21 and 6/22 then dropped for a few days before returning to mid-80s on 6/24 followed by mid-high 90's 6/26-6/28. That melt is all reflected in the following discharge data from the Middle Fork Nooksack (which drains Deming Glacier) Discharge raters appear somewhat normal until heatwave. During heatwave historical average is ~ 550 CFS. Actuals were ~1400 CFS. Considering that both snowmelt and ground water contributed to flow...lets swag it at 50/50.....typical discharge due to snowmelt went from 275 CFS to 1125 CFS. So an increase by a factor of ~4 from average. So you get something like an extra 20 days of normal melting during the abnormally warm period. (Thinking about it I'd guess ground water makes up a lot more discharge than snowmelt and that the actual factor is much greater x8+?). Afterwards discharge rates are below normal presumably due to a lack of snow to melt and ground water after our dry year.

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Brushbuffalo
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PostWed Aug 11, 2021 1:12 pm 
slabbyd wrote:
Afterwards discharge rates are below normal presumably due to a lack of snow to melt
Very interesting data. It makes sense that stream discharge would be low because further contribution from snow melt is minimal......yes, it's already melted.
drm wrote:
I think the sun is the guilty party.
Certainly solar energy is one of the factors in formation of suncups,and 'supercups'. But it takes more: (Quoting from my theory of 'supercup' formation, note that I hypothesize that windblown dust deposited in depressions in suncups accelerates melting due to absorption of more solar energy. More energy, more melting, deeper depressions...supercups!) "The melting was so extreme that a significantly greater area of rock was exposed compared to normal. Blowing across unfrozen bare ground the wind would pick up finer particles (sand and smaller) and deposit them on the remaining snow surface. Normal suncups, with depressions separated by rounded ridges, would accumulate more wind-blown debris in the depressions due to gravity and the slightly lower wind velocity there. Dust accumulations in the 'lows' would have a lower albedo (reflectivity) and absorb more solar radiation. This will accelerate melting, deepening the lows, while at the same time the ridges will become more prominent, thus letting less dust accumulate on the ridges. This runaway feedback process will lead in time to 'supercups'."

Passing rocks and trees like they were standing still
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drm
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PostWed Aug 11, 2021 3:54 pm 
Right, sun alone is not enough, or we would see them everywhere. You saw debris in the cups that was a likely contributing factor. I have seen them without visible debris - maybe some meltwater can feed the same process. slabbyd - okay, so we did just miss it. Maybe in order to get flooding down lower where everybody would see it requires earlier heat when there is even more snow.

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Brushbuffalo
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PostWed Aug 11, 2021 4:02 pm 
drm wrote:
You saw debris in the cups that was a likely contributing factor. I have seen them without visible debris -
Interesting for sure! There are two contrasting theories for development of normal suncups. One involves debris in the depressions, the other on the ridges. I have forgotten the details. doh.gif It may have to do with thickness of the debris and how such thickness relates to melting versus insulation and less melting. At least one person has a thesis published on suncups. If I wasn't in middle age, stage two, I might do a study on 'supercups.' Not bad....just walk around on late summer snowfields with a notebook and camera. Isn't nature fascinating?

Passing rocks and trees like they were standing still
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williswall
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PostThu Aug 12, 2021 10:07 pm 
Aside from the interesting conditions you write about, grand kudos must go out for 81 climbs of Baker…extraordinary!

I desire medium danger williswall.com
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Riverside Laker
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PostThu Aug 12, 2021 10:13 pm 
It could be some of the ice sublimated.

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Randito
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PostThu Aug 12, 2021 10:19 pm 
I've never seen the Interglacier so shriveled.

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Malachai Constant
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Malachai Constant
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PostSat Aug 21, 2021 8:02 am 
North Cascades Peaks in bad shape. Ruth mountain ropeless Route closed. Worse than it has been late September.
Challenger glacier has developed large holes to ground and Bergstrom has disappeared can only be traversed with ice climbing gear.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Geezer
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PostSun Aug 22, 2021 1:00 pm 
I just saw A photo of Mt Shasta which is basically now just bare rock.

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olderthanIusedtobe
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PostSun Aug 22, 2021 4:52 pm 
Geezer wrote:
I just saw A photo of Mt Shasta which is basically now just bare rock.
So is Hood, other than glaciers. It looks like you could probably find a route up the mountain entirely on bare ground (although it would probably be rotten and entirely undesirable).

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Forum Index > Trip Reports > Extraordinary snowpack deterioration high on Mt. Baker (Squak Glacier climb: July 22-23, 2021)
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