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Kim Brown
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Kim Brown
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PostTue Aug 17, 2021 8:20 am 
uww wrote:
Kim Brown wrote:
I hope other employers are making it clear, and easy for their staff as mine is. It's not an easy issue.

It's an easy issue for me- I want out.

Ah. I meant it's not an easy issue for a lot of people to understand. The deadline to decide is coming up fast, and I am pretty sure the majority of workers in Washington state haven't even heard of this, let alone understand it.

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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Randito
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Randito
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PostTue Aug 17, 2021 10:38 am 
uww wrote:
You don't have to be a high income person to opt out, anyone can.

That's true, but the economics provides less incentive to do so.

The state tax is $580 per year on $100K income seems like a pretty good deal compared to my $1800 per year premium for a private LTCI policy that I bought into over a decade ago.

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Kim Brown
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Kim Brown
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PostTue Aug 17, 2021 11:57 am 
Randito wrote:
uww wrote:
You don't have to be a high income person to opt out, anyone can.

That's true, but the economics provides less incentive to do so.

The state tax is $580 per year on $100K income seems like a pretty good deal compared to my $1800 per year premium for a private LTCI policy that I bought into over a decade ago.

$580 per year isn't a good deal when you're less than 10 years from retirement and will never be vested, or you can't afford to live in WA when you retire and plan to move elsewhere.

And/or private coverage give more benefit and you don't have to deal with the state! (of course, sometimes dealing with insurance companies isn't any better).

I have my one-on-one Thursday; will ask a few questions; I am certainly opting out, but it's interesting to find out answers to a few question.

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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Randito
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Randito
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PostTue Aug 17, 2021 12:48 pm 
Objectively,  I think private LTCI isn't really a good financial investment.   However my MIL was in assisted living for many years at $9000/month paid out of pocket so there is no way to convince my wife that investing the premiums we've been paying into an index fund would have been better financially.  She want the assurance that LTC costs will be covered.

I'm distrustful of insurance companies and fully expect that my son will be dealing with the insurance company coming up with some rational why our needs aren't covered the policy.  Fortunately he is an attorney,  so hopefully he will be able to make them pay what was promised.

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Kim Brown
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Kim Brown
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PostTue Aug 17, 2021 1:14 pm 
Well, we do what we can do; we're not all the same financially and some are more comfortable with one thing than another, but you are probably right, objectively.


So there's no one size fits all decision. And the state won't accept securities as an opt out option, so there's that.

That's why it is tricky and I am hoping everyone's HR is on this for their staff.

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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MtnManic
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PostTue Aug 17, 2021 4:49 pm 
As some age 64 and one who does not emphatically want to work another 10 years and *may* have to consider moving after retirement because of no pension plan, only some 401k/IRA from the latter part of my working life - this is far from a decent deal.  But at my age, private plans would cost so much more than the tax that I might have to work until I drop.

So I'm not opting out.  I figure it's the price to "support the village" - i.e., societal prop.

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Backpacking: limited to one pack at a time.  Cameras: limited to as many as I can carry.
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Sallie4jo
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PostWed Aug 18, 2021 9:04 pm 
You are so very right...I keep saying I just hope I will be a nice little old lady who can laugh and perhaps crack a joke once in awhile.

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I choose to live in a landscape of hope.
                           Terry Tempest Williams
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BigBrunyon
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BigBrunyon
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PostFri Aug 20, 2021 10:43 pm 
The idea with insurance is to keep going on and off it all the time. Get it down to 50/50 in short intervals like a week. Week on week off. Over the course of a year, your payin' half your dues and if you get hurt in a week off you can just bite the bullet till the next on week. Then BENEFIT IN FULL. Many have managed to bring down insurance cost this way!

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YOU NEVER KNOW!!
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Kat
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Kat
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PostSun Aug 22, 2021 4:22 am 
The 10 year vesting requirement nixes this deal for anyone close to retirement. I guess they don't add this tax to any retirement income, just if you are actively working.

In some cases the private insurance will be less than the state insurance, and it appears one would only have to hold the private insurance until retirement. (Or less if there is no follow-up as suggested above.)

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Kim Brown
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Kim Brown
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PostMon Aug 23, 2021 9:32 am 
My advisor said to take the state insurance. Even through I will never vest in it, it's way WAY cheaper. The premium for private was a LOT more. I can invest that in 401K as Randito said. And as said earlier, it can be my contribution for someone else in the future.

The consultation was less than 4  minutes long and she was very very VERY sure opting IN was best for me, given my circumstances. And she works for the private insurance company!

However, my guess is that this will be delayed or nixed all together. The state, businesses, and workers are not ready for this. And I'm wondering if that's my my consultant was so fast about tellling me to opt in.

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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Randito
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PostMon Aug 23, 2021 10:08 am 
Kat wrote:
it appears one would only have to hold the private insurance until retirement.

This seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.   Private LTCI is far more expensive than the state tax.  I bought into private LTCI about 15 years ago.  The premiums are $1600 per year for me and $1800 per year for my wife (she is 4 years older).   With the tax rate being 0.58% your wage income will need to be several hundred thousand annually before its cheaper than the state tax.

Dropping the LTCI when you retire you would be simply throwing away all the premiums you paid.

Maybe that would make sense if you have a taxable income over $500K and sufficient investments already to cover any care needs.

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DadFly
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PostFri Sep 03, 2021 12:26 pm 
Just a few observations.
1. Memory care facilities are more expensive than nursing care which are more expensive than assisted living.
2. My father had a series of strokes. I knew him well and have no reservations saying he would have wandered off into a snow storm with a light jacket rather than live four years in a memory care facility not knowing anyone. Not even me. But at that point, it was pure primal survival instinct.
3. One of my brothers went and lived with him for two years before he went to the home. That saved a lot of money but he sacrificed a lot of freedom. And as dad's strokes kept happening he got harder to deal with. No filter. Angry outbursts. Midnight walks. Neighbors accusing us of elder abuse even though he was lucid enough to know he was home and wanted to stay there but kept firing the help my brother hired. It was messed up. We finally had to put him in a home. Same neighbors said it was cruel. Go figure.
4. One of my daughters works in a Health Care facility. Got covid early and worked while having symptoms that nearly put her in the hospital. Her only job was to sit with dying covid patients so they would not be alone. She still has lingering symptoms 17 months later. Those facilities are very hard to insulate from covid. Workers have to live outside the facilities. Once covid gets a foothold it runs rampant.
5. Montana was a pretty cheap place to house dad. We payed about $5K/month at first. Then his memory care needs got higher and it cost over $6K. He finally stopped eating. They put him on hospice, morphine and he passed peacefully.
6. LTC and Life insurance was a good thing. It payed out well. There was other money too that was dispersed through probate court. The brother who spent 2 years with him got some extra cash and a killer deal on the house. The four of us did not fight. That is rare. I am very proud of us. I may let them out soon.

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"May you live in interesting times"
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