[pinecone]

My wife and I are not quite ready to hang up the packs, BUT she does not do well in the cold. We'd like to chase the warmth (at least, warm-ish) and plan an out of state trip in November. We've never backpacked outside of WA state... looking for ideas. Do you know of any 20-30-ish mile treks that would be warm-ish in November? We'd love some ideas and this forum has yet to fail us. Many thanks in advance, -Mike (pinecone)

[Malachai Constant]

Deserts in California will still be warm maybe too warm. Death Valley and Joshua Tree. Probably better with a base camp and day hikes. The desert is warm still but nights can be below freezing. PCT opens in April but you can probably find things on the Appalachian Trail. Hurricanes can go into November. Lots of good things in South America Peru and Columbia as well as Patagonia. Of course Australia and New Zealand will be in late spring and have many nice places, visas may be problem. Main problem is COVID which closes off Southeast Asia.

[Randito]

Yeah -- the desert is different -- the differential between daytime temps and night time temps can be wide -- particularly at altitude. I was camping near Santa Fe a few years ago and mid-afternoon it would be in the mid-80s -- but at sunrise it was lower-20s. The Arizona trail is a long distance trail that might be worth investigating to see whether it will work for you. https://aztrail.org/

[rubywrangler]

Something on the Tonto in the Grand Canyon. I did a couple trips there in November-December the past two years: Bright Angel to Hermit, Hermit Tonto Boucher loop. Grandview to Kaibab has been suggested to me but i haven't done it yet.

[Malachai Constant]

There are lots of several multi day trips in the Grand Canyon North Rim but the rub is that permits are probably harder to get than the Enchantments and trailheads are a long 4x4 drive. Tonto is usually booked months in advance.

[Riverside Laker]

Places like Death Valley might be warm in the daytime at low elevations, but the high elevations can be quite pleasant. Might be cold at night -- no clouds to retain the heat. We're gonna do some stuff in Escalante area, so hope it'll be reasonable temperatures. But like Malachai, we like to sleep in our truck camper! It has a heater

[rubywrangler]

In my experience permits are not that hard to come by at the Grand Canyon in November, especially for non-corridor campsites. I did not make advance reservations for either of my trips. The North Rim is only open for day use between November 1 and November 30.

[Eric Hansen]

+1 to what ruby wrangler said re Grand Canyon. I'd view November and February as ideal (some distance from winter solstice temperatures/long shadows). Temperatures on the Tonto Plateau (the place to be) roughly low of 35-40, high of 55. Bear in mind that I may be over opinionated, having done 45 winter trips there. Your results may vary. If going "too early" in the fall there is some chance that key seasonal springs on the Tonto are not yet flowing (combination of solar angle evaporation and Cottonwood leaves still on trees diverting flow). Death Valley is also incredible. Water issues there tend to push you into one night trips (carrying your water). What water there is in the backcountry tends to be highly mineralized (drinkable but undesirable). Wide range of elevations available there, offering good choices. One classic: ridge walking north from Dante's View (5,500'). In November, Telescope Peak may still be reasonable (11,000'). Pyramid Peak (7,000') reportedly has a fabulous view, bivvy site on top. East of Vegas is also a prime cool weather playground. Muddy Mountains and particularly Hidden Valley are worthwhile. Bowl of Fire is spectacular. Some rain pockets may be available but as at Death Valley one night trips are the most nimble.

[Stefan]

The Paria Canyon. From White House to Lee's Ferry--you need a shuttle from Lee's Ferry to White House. I don't know about permits...but I highly doubt it. I was just there. Trip report in about a week!

[Eric Hansen]

Hi Stefan, I share your enthusiasm for the Paria. OP mentioned November and the deep shade which is a pleasure in early September can get very old as temperatures chill. And the waterholes (mandatory traverses) can be ice rimmed. Monthly temperature records for nearby Page, AZ indicate what to expect. Permit information here, seems to be a limit of 20 for overnight use. https://www.blm.gov/programs/recreation/permits-and-passes/lotteries-and-permit-systems/arizona/paria-canyon I often spend a few days at Lees Ferry between Grand Canyon backpacks (typically February) and it is a fabulous area.

[RatherBOutdoors]

I'd put in another vote for the Superstition Wilderness/Tonto National Forest just outside of Phoenix. I've been there a couple of times and really enjoyed the area. I've also done the Grand Canyon from the South Rim a couple times. Both times were in March, and it was quite pleasant. I'm not sure about conditions in November. Another hike I've done is in the Sespe Wilderness north of Santa Barbara. This hike has a nice hot spring destination: https://www.hikespeak.com/trails/sespe-creek-willett-hot-springs-padres/ Back in my college days (Berkeley), I used to enjoy Big Sur and other parts of the mid-coast region. Finally, although I haven't done them, yet, I've been wanting to explore Texas and Florida trails

[RatherBOutdoors]

I have to clarify/correct, because I didn't read previous responses carefully. The Tonto National Forest (near Phoenix) is different than the Tonto Plateau (Grand Canyon). As far as I know, Tonto National Forest (and Superstition Wilderness) are not difficult to get permits. Water seems to be generally available, and there are areas of trees and shade. I'm happy to share my experiences in more detail if you're interested.

[rubywrangler]

Oh yes I'll add a vote for the Superstitions too. That area is beautiful! And there are many 20-30 mile loop possibilities and no permits required. Water was pretty scarce when I was there in early spring this year, but there are a few perennial springs. Also my understanding is it has been a very wet monsoon season so this fall may be an ideal time to go. However, a lot of the wilderness has burned in the last couple years and is pretty desolate now so I would recommend checking out the fire history layer in Caltopo when planning a route.

[Eric Hansen]

Not sure if you are flying in or driving in but one tactic that has worked well for me is to have two trip plans, each a separate geography and elevation. That allows you to quickly call an audible if weather/conditions are an issue. There are many fine mid elevation venues in southern Utah for example but I'd have a plan B in hand. A low desert plan backup, maybe the desert east of Vegas or Death Valley. I punched up average November temperature for Kanab, Utah (elevation 5,000') and it is high of 59, low of 31. Two long range (2 weeks ahead) forecasts here that I watch before a road trip, looking for cold fronts, major precipitation. Note the parameters and there is a lot of good data http://wxmaps.org/pix/temp1 http://wxmaps.org/pix/prec1 And, one other precipitation one https://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/qpf/qpf2.shtml

[pinecone]

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful replies - we're going to dig into these recommendations and make some decisions. I'll be sure to report back!