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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 2456 | TRs | Pics
Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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 Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:16 pm |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | moonspots wrote: | | Sure, but their code isn't standard as the old site was. I now have to switch over to Firefox now instead of continuing with Safari... typical of lame government programmers and / or contractors. |
I looked at the code. I don't see anything that looks bad. What do you think they're doing wrong? |
I have no idea, I just know that I *used* to be able to go right to the website, and immediately find/access any webcam I wanted to look at. Now I cannot, without opening Firefox, and then hunting around a bit..
| Cyclopath wrote: | | Do you have 15 toolbars installed? |
? Not sure what you're asking here.
This all SO resembles the so-called improvements to various software applications I used to be required to use when I worked for the Federal Government. Someone was always "improving" things and it almost always was a poorer product when released.
It's ok, I now know how to find what I want/need, and as usual, it's now a poorer product.
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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Pyrites
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Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 1884 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
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Pyrites
Member
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Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:29 pm |
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I’ve seen both improvements and retrograde web site changes. I’ve sometimes wondered if resume padding is the real objective. Does Created new web page sound better than Maintained and evolved web page?
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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thunderhead
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Joined: 14 Oct 2015
Posts: 1519 | TRs | Pics
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"This all SO resembles the so-called improvements to various software applications I used to be required to use when I worked for the Federal Government."
I think this is all software in general. The industry was lean and mean and reached its tech peak around 2008-2010. Now its bloat and bureaucrats and sliding backwards.
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BigBrunyon
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 1456 | TRs | Pics
Location: the fitness gyms!! |
| moonspots wrote: | | It's ok, I now know how to find what I want/need, and as usual, it's now a poorer product. |
What you have to understand is there is an agenda to sub-versively endoctrinate new users into the ways of inferior UI's. They strategically go thru these cycles of worsening UI's every couple years so they can HIT BIG on a new UI. Just lowerin' the bar with every sub-release so it's easier to impress on a MAJOR release. This is a well known business tactic of big boppers in the internet programming scene!!
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7727 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:58 am |
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| Pyrites wrote: | | I’ve seen both improvements and retrograde web site changes. I’ve sometimes wondered if resume padding is the real objective. Does Created new web page sound better than Maintained and evolved web page? |
Programmers don't get to change a public website just because they want to. Would you pay somebody $$$ an hour and let them decide what to do with your time? Neither would anyone else. They're worth that kind of money because you need them to do something specific.
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Sore Feet
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 6307 | TRs | Pics
Location: Out There, Somewhere |
| BigBrunyon wrote: | | What you have to understand is there is an agenda to sub-versively endoctrinate new users into the ways of inferior UI's. They strategically go thru these cycles of worsening UI's every couple years so they can HIT BIG on a new UI. Just lowerin' the bar with every sub-release so it's easier to impress on a MAJOR release. This is a well known business tactic of big boppers in the internet programming scene!! |
So...they deliberately cripple the product in order to make it seem like a more significant upgrade to the product? Even if you're just being tongue-in-cheek, how in the world does that make any sense for any industry?
| Cyclopath wrote: | | Programmers don't get to change a public website just because they want to. Would you pay somebody $$$ an hour and let them decide what to do with your time? Neither would anyone else. They're worth that kind of money because you need them to do something specific. |
The programmers also don't make the design decisions, they just build it to the spec provided. These sort of changes go through cycle after cycle of iteration, and (theoretically) lots of usability sessions to determine if the design decisions being made are actually providing the intended value. They're not just winging it and making guesses about how it should work. Any changes that were made were made with considerations regarding ease of use because they got feedback about certain things not being intuitive or easy to use, or needing to be upgraded with better support for mobile devices.
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rossb
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Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 1679 | TRs | Pics
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rossb
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Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:18 pm |
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From what I can tell, the website is better overall. The only big flaw is that they didn't forward users of the old links to the new links. I was frustrated with that as well. But it was pretty easy to find the pass reports. I just put in "passes" in the search bar, and found a link to the "Mountain Pass Reports" page. Then I scrolled down to find Snoqualmie, and updated my link. I think it is easier to navigate for first time users -- it is just a matter of updating links (and getting used to the new UI).
I'm surprised it doesn't work in Safari. It seems to work fine in Edge and Firefox, which have a much smaller market share. (It also seems to work fine in Chrome).
What exactly is the problem? Which web page are you trying to get to, and what does it show?
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:54 pm |
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| rossb wrote: | | What exactly is the problem? Which web page are you trying to get to, and what does it show? |
When I use Safari, and access the page via your link above for example, I get no indication that cameras are available. The same link as seen with Firefox, shows the same info, and shows "pass report", "cameras" and "weather" information, then "winter driving". Safari only shows "winter driving".
This is what led me to my assessment and comment that whoever changed the page didn't follow standard coding practices - didn't know what they were doing. Typical of government contracting, hire the lowest bidder. I've seen it many times, and when I was working for the Federal Government, I had to deal with lazy (lowest bidder) contractors SO many times.
I left a comment on the contact page. We'll see what, if any, response I receive.
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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rossb
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Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 1679 | TRs | Pics
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rossb
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Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:14 pm |
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That's really weird. I looked at the code, and it does look like they are using JavaScript to generate a lot of the HTML, which is weird. My guess is they use some sort of package, and it generates this mess. Either way, that could explain the problem -- the script(s) work fine in most browsers, but crap out on yours. Anyway, hopefully they will fix it.
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ejain
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Joined: 27 Apr 2009
Posts: 1498 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle, WA |
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ejain
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Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:39 pm |
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FWIW the mountain pass pages work fine for me on the current versions of both mobile and desktop Safari. Looks like the layout is now more mobile-friendly (and less desktop-optimized), but that kind of make sense.
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7727 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:22 pm |
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| rossb wrote: | | ... look like they are using JavaScript to generate a lot of the HTML, which is weird. |
This is actually really common these days. Offers a lot of benefits. Instead of selecting view source, it's easier to make sense of if you pick inspect (from the right click menu). That will show you the html that's being rendered on the screen including anything added or removed by script. 
The html you get when you do view source looks like the basic layout of the page, the part that's the same every time you visit. The js looks like it's basically fetching the camera images and the weather icons - the parts that change.
It looks like they're using a pretty standard viewbox component to display the road cameras.
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rossb
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Joined: 23 Sep 2002
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rossb
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Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:05 pm |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | Instead of selecting view source, it's easier to make sense of if you pick inspect (from the right click menu). That will show you the HTML that's being rendered on the screen including anything added or removed by script. |
Yeah, I get that. If you "view source" on the whole page, there is very little there. If you "view source" on an element, than the html appears (likewise with "inspect").
| Cyclopath wrote: | | The html you get when you do view source looks like the basic layout of the page, the part that's the same every time you visit. The js looks like it's basically fetching the camera images and the weather icons - the parts that change. |
It's not just the images. It is everything moonspots mentioned. For example, I went to the Snoqualmie Pass page and looked for "Temperature" on the basic HTML page. It isn't there. Neither is "Snoqualmie Pass". It has the header, the footer, but everything in between -- I mean everything -- is generated with JavaScript. It seems to work OK on most browsers, but I'm not surprised it fails on some. You are creating an extra layer of potential failure. I've worked with similar systems before, and they are really brittle (i. e. prone to failure). They are also a real pain to fix. (I don't envy the person tasked with fixing this -- browser specific issues are tough enough).
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:56 pm |
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| rossb wrote: | | It has the header, the footer, but everything in between -- I mean everything -- is generated with JavaScript. It seems to work OK on most browsers, but I'm not surprised it fails on some. You are creating an extra layer of potential failure. |
They have to get external data (weather, alerts, camera images) and display it in your browser. Any way to accomplish that is a layer of potential failure. You can do it client side in JavaScript, you can do it server side in Java, but you're going to have to pay the piper one way or another. I'm certain the team responsible for this had many discussions about the best way to structure the software given their resources, constraints, and so on.
We've heard from 3 Safari users so far in this thread, 2 of them say it works properly for them. I don't have enough info to be able to say why it doesn't work for @moonspots but the fact that it works in Safari rules out the code not being compatible with that browser.
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marta
wildflower maven
Joined: 07 May 2003
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marta
wildflower maven
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Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:34 pm |
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I liked the map and struggled to find it this morning when I wanted to check the cameras in the Mt Vernon area for flooding. I used the map in the past to click on the cameras different areas to get an idea of where the snow was, rain, etc. I tried clicking on TRAVEL on the top NAV bar and selections in Real-Time but couldn't find a map.
I finally went out to the main home page and found the map. It does have a lot of new layers that may be useful. Just note that once you are off this map - I couldn't find any way to get back to it other than going to the home page.
https://wsdot.com/travel/real-time/map/
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