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touron
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PostWed May 03, 2006 7:50 pm 
That brings up an interesting question. I think we all agree that it is neat to be able to discover artifacts in the wilderness. How many of these artifacts, though, are still going to be around in another hundred years? Is it better to have mining artifacts left in mines or in a jumble of wet vegetation where they may rust away, or taken to a museum where people can see them in a controlled environment for a longer period of time? Either way, taking a picture and posting it will at least preserve the picture for a long time and make it available to alot of people. up.gif up.gif The outdoor train museum in Snohomish is neat, but it is sad to see some of the cars rusting away. Arrowheads will probably last forever, or for a long long time. Bottles may get broken.

Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
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Snowbrushy
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PostThu May 04, 2006 4:00 pm 
I sincerely believe that hikers who find artifacts should remove them AND TAKE THEM OR MAIL THEM TO THE LOCAL MUSEUM. The Department of Agriculture (FS) may loose an artifact just like they lost the shakes for Kelly Butte Lookout. If You keep it you may loose it also. Give any artifact to a local museum. It is very important. Bottles included.

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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H. Hound
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PostThu May 04, 2006 7:40 pm 
Quote:
I sincerely believe that hikers who find artifacts should remove them AND TAKE THEM OR MAIL THEM TO THE LOCAL MUSEUM. (A little extra weight is all).
I have to disagree. Many artifacts will last a very long time if they are left alone. I can think of a local wrecked cabin site that still has junk everywhere, but if it was on any, or near any trail it would have been picked clean by now and no where near as fun to poke around in. As a child I used to pick up insulators and drag them home (actually they ended up in my mothers pack). Now they are hard to find. So, please leave the junk in the woods for others to discover. Please only take pictures and leave nothing but foot prints. The next generation will thank you.

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hyak.net
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PostFri May 05, 2006 9:46 am 
Quote:
I sincerely believe that hikers who find artifacts should remove them AND TAKE THEM OR MAIL THEM TO THE LOCAL MUSEUM. (A little extra weight is all). I have to disagree. Many artifacts will last a very long time if they are left alone. I can think of a local wrecked cabin site that still has junk everywhere, but if it was on any, or near any trail it would have been picked clean by now and no where near as fun to poke around in. As a child I used to pick up insulators and drag them home (actually they ended up in my mothers pack). Now they are hard to find.
Insulaters are hard to find these days because they are worth $$$, some are worth hundreds or even thousands of dollars. Its nice to believe that if you leave artifacts behind they will be there for years down the road for others to see, but that is not reality. They will either be picked up by others or destroyed by people who have no appreciation for them.

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H. Hound
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PostFri May 05, 2006 12:32 pm 
hyak.net wrote:
Its nice to believe that if you leave artifacts behind they will be there for years down the road for others to see, but that is not reality. They will either be picked up by others or destroyed by people who have no appreciation for them.
Its true artifacts will continue to be picked up and carried off; I still believe it’s better to gently discourage the collecting of artifacts, than encourage it. After all, it’s illegal to remove any artifact form state property that’s over 50 years old (I know it’s not enforced, or even that well known). It’s about changing popular attitudes. It wasn’t that long ago that camping right on a lake shore, and having campfires was acceptable, these days it’s frowned on. Just my 2c. PS – Mt Logan, nice trip report, and I am not really directing this at you. Some replies came up that I felt needed to be responded to. PPS – Insulators – I wish the ones around here were that valuable. Most of the spendy ones are the off colors that AT&T didn’t use on the west coast. The generic green and clear ones aren’t worth much.

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WTCrocker
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PostFri May 05, 2006 5:12 pm 
touron wrote:
or taken to a museum where people can see them in a controlled environment for a longer period of time?
Should read "or taken to a museum where they can be shoved into a box in some warehouse untill everyone forgets where they came from." Archeologists are really just professional pot-hunters.

This the year!!
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Snowbrushy
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PostSat May 06, 2006 8:34 am 
Well, my favorite NW history subject is at stake here, so I'm simply appealing to people to use their best judgement for the sake of future historians if they find 'stuff'. I'm refering to the fur trapping era here. There may be some changes coming soon to our wilderness streams. They could get quite a bit lower in the late summers. And gully washers in the fall. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/269186_warming05.html This may expose old remains of beaver traps and other gear from a period beginning around 1810 - even up in the Pasayten. The Mountain Men. People will discover this important history. What to do? I'd be curious to know what the Forest Service policy will be on this situation.

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Red Squatch
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PostWed May 10, 2006 3:38 pm 
I was trekking along in Mt. Rainier National Park last year, and happened to notice a glint off the edge of the trail. Upon investigating further, I unearthed a historical artifact from a time long gone by - closer scrutiny led us to discover that it was a Mountain Dew can from at least 3 or 4 hiking seasons before. My partner tried to put it in her pack so she could take it on down to the nearest trash receptacle, but I scolded her harshly and carefully replaced it where it was found, so all could enjoy this rare site... What's that old saying, One person's trash is another person's treasure? The majority of items in these old logging camps are the cast-offs of a former generation. Someday, we'll have our grand-kids' grand-kids poking through the Midway Landfill, marveling at the number of CRT monitors tossed in amongst the banana peels and Safeway grocery bags. Will it truly be the best policy for that generation to promote a "hands-off" policy around our trash heaps? A few years' back, there was a story about a barge loaded with trash that cruised the high seas off the East Coast for several months, finally coming to rest where it started in New York City. I've come to believe that the biggest problem we have with the environment today is the heaps of stuff from our "disposable generation".
Snowbrushy wrote:
Well, my favorite NW history subject is at stake here, so I'm simply appealing to people to use their best judgement for the sake of future historians if they find 'stuff'.
I believe that's the key here. Use discretion when picking through yesteryear's dumping grounds - if you are violating the law, then that's one thing, but if the 19th century syringe of some old miner is entertaining to the children of Mount Logan, than it's one less piece of trash I have to lay eyes on in my sojourns through the wilderness.

Good judgment comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgment... PPE
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Cascade Dave
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PostWed May 10, 2006 10:43 pm 
...was that before or after you walked through the swarm of wasps that congregated on the trail and proceeded to take their wrath out on us? And wasn't that can a vintage Rheinlander?

Poorly Planned Expeditions - Founded 2001
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flyboy
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PostThu May 11, 2006 2:13 pm 
illegal?
my Dad had a gold mine in the cascades when I was a kid........full of so called "artifacts"...........as a kid I hiked all over the Harts Pass area collecting blue bottles and stuff from old cabins other miners left behind......... Guess what.........none of those buildings or artifacts are there anymore because the forest service came in and burned them down! Anything that wouldn't burn they buried! Take them while you still can I say. .. ......you can't move your head in this country these days without breaking a law! Last summer I volunteered to clear trails for the forest service and the Ranger in charge pulled out a can of coleman fuel to start his campfire during a burn ban! Exactly which laws am I supposed to respect?

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briejer
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PostFri May 19, 2006 11:30 pm 
mines 132
mines 132

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BellaBecky
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PostTue Aug 15, 2006 3:14 pm 
I have a bottle from "The Lang Drug Co. Seattle WASH. I've had it since I was young. My dad grew up in the back hills of Oregon, and dug up bottles when he was a boy. I have lots of bottles from Seattle. Osseward Pharmacy Cobb Bldg SEATTLE; Societe Hard Candy; and all different sizes of Swift Pharmacies SEATTLE. I also have Pumpkin Seed flasks, baby bottles, etc. There probably weren't rules back then about 'bottle etiquette' or 'artifact preservation"? Color me bad, but I'm keeping my bottles! They're mine, mine, mine!!! Way off in the future my grandchildren can open a little roadside museum, and display the bottles next to their enormous ball of twine.

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Snowbrushy
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PostTue Aug 15, 2006 9:59 pm 
Well. Oh Well. Oh Well ...

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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