[lookout bob]

what Rich Baldwin said above..... I do not begrudge the Mad River area to the motorized crowd. I should point out that there is also motorized vehicle access on the Chelan Crest area up to the Sawtooth boundary so there IS some place in the North Cascade area for riding trail. What I do object to is the disregard that SOME of the riders have for walkers, horse folks and other trail users. I do not enjoy breathing the exhaust and hearing the noise when I am hiking.... I have seen blatant disregard for 'the rules' in a number of areas where motor bike riders say 'the hell with that' and ride in areas posted off limits to MVs. Motor bike tracks on the Pyramid Mountain trail going off trail around fallen trees; bike tracks over the ripped off sign posting no MVs....folks on the Chelan Summit trail 10 miles north of Boiling Lake ( the official end of the MV trail and IN the Sawtooth wilderness. The most blatant one I ever saw was a jeep going across the meadows at Sunrise inside MRNP....I drove to the ranger station after seeing that and gave the rangers the license plate #.....they busted that person probably for a well deserved huge fine.... But I suspect like any rule breakers, that they are the exception rather than the rule.....most folks probably ride safely and courteously....it's just that I happen to have seen the worst and I admit freely that it biases my viewpoint. I would rather not seen enlargement of the areas where motorized vehicles can drive.

[grannyhiker]

These motorcycle "trails" all started with a Washington state law which allocted gas tax money for ORV facilities. The perennially budget-strapped USFS of course embraced this bonanza of "trail" funds. Can we really blame them? We (and I include myself here, since I was a WA resident at the time this law passed) should have (1) made more efforts to fight the state law or at least to restrict its use in roadless areas of national forest land, and (2) instead of ranting to our congresspersons about motorcycle trails on USFS land, we should have been pressuring them to appropriate more funds to the USFS for hiking/horse trails. I don't think we should cite abuses as a reason to ban one type or other of user. I have seen abuse by every class of user, including hikers. I met some hikers over Labor Day weekend in Indian Heaven who were chopping green wood, washing dishes in the lake and building an enormous campfire during a time of extreme fire danger. At the same lake there were deep manure-filled holes where horse users had tied their horses to trees in an area that could have accomodated several tent sites (with the prevalent underbrush, tent sites are hard to find in Indian Heaven). And I've seen mountain bikers riding right by "no bicycle" signs on the Pacific Crest Trail south of Mt. Hood. I suspect that motorcycle use is so entrenched in the Mad River area that any ideas of making it a wilderness are impractical. Enforcing a no-motorcycle rule in an area that has been a motorcyclist's haven for many years now would be impossible. Much as I hate the idea (I've been there and it's beautiful), I think we have to leave it to the bikers.