Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Hidden Hikes in Western Washington - more places to explore
 This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
Previous :: Next Topic
Author Message
McPilchuck
Wild Bagger



Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 856 | TRs | Pics
Location: near Snohomish, Wa.
McPilchuck
Wild Bagger
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 10:41 am 
Comment: not that anyone here doesn't respect the wild for what it is, because I do think we on this board perhaps agree more than we disagree in realted topics about the land we love...profoundly and most humbly I thank you whoever the "Off Trail Challenge" person is for posting your note therefrom my site.

in the granite high-wild alpine land . . . www.alpinequest.com
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
Member
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 11:02 am 
"And I do have one problem: why is it better to blab your secrets when you're half lit in some half-lit bar - then it is to talk about them here, to a very small group of self-selected outdoor lovers, all of whom eloquently express their concern for wilderness values, whether or not they exactly share your ideas about how to protect that wilderness?" Because in that bar, you know where the info is going. Claiming info posted on the 'net is shared by a 'very small select group" is, well, a bit off. There's a big difference between exchanging info with someone face to face whom you understand and know a bit about, vs irretrievably blabbing said info on a medium where anyone with a 'puter can find it. Besides, even those here who say they value wildernesss certainly don't do so in the same way, and trying purposefully to *increase* impact in less traveled areas, such as to Delta lake for example, certainly doesn't mirror my concern for wilderness values nor ideas on how to protect it. "I want to say one more thing...... the 'impact' that guidebooks have had on the wilderness is minimal compared to the awesome 'impact' the wilderness has had on me (and many, many other people). A select few do not own it. It's there to be shared. " As has been said, there's no one here claiming to own anything we're talking about, save personal experience. You want to go to a lake or peak have at it. There's not a single "hidden" spot on a map, no "personal" lakes or peaks. Sure these things are to be shared, that's something else we all agree on. You want personal experience, that's a different story.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
Ulrich
Member
Member


Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Posts: 174 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
Ulrich
Member
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 11:08 am 
In case members of this distinguished panel aren't aware there is a detailed report to Rainy Lake by Randy Busch on Vtrail, a website easily accessible to the public. It appears predating Karen Sykes' book.

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
#19
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 2197 | TRs | Pics
#19
Member
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 11:49 am 
Think many valid points have been made by all here. Scrooge an Boranks last ones were both very good. To make Boranks point, I didn't know that people were going all the way to Canyon Lake via the Bath Lakes High route. But now I'm thinking....hmm sounds good. I have been around more than some and less than others, but I've never written a trip report. I have no web site. Lastly, I do believe that most everyone here is very well intentioned and have thoughtout there own beliefs quite well. But one thing I have become more and more aware of , and that is to minimize my impact in any way I can.

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
MCaver
Founder



Joined: 14 Dec 2001
Posts: 5124 | TRs | Pics
MCaver
Founder
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 12:20 pm 
Quote:
Besides, even those here who say they value wildernesss certainly don't do so in the same way, and trying purposefully to *increase* impact in less traveled areas, such as to Delta lake for example, certainly doesn't mirror my concern for wilderness values nor ideas on how to protect it.
Chris, do I remember your position correctly that you oppose the creation of the new wilderness area near Index because it would limit access and possibly close some existing Forest Service roads? How would that be "concern for wilderness values", and not be "trying to purposefully increase impact"? Access over protection was your arguement, no?

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
Lurk
Guest




Lurk
Guest
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 12:23 pm 
I usually don't comment too much, don't expect too many people to even consider what I have to say, because I am not a regular, but I do "lurk" and enjoy the discussions. I do however like what some have said in defense of secluded places, even though on maps. Particularly as it relates to that off trail challenge thing I read on this thread and at mcoilchuck's site. As well as pappy's last line comment about becoming more aware of the environment and minimise his impact. This I believe is the heart of this thread. If guide books lead everyone to seldom visited places (step by step) (scamble by scramble) there won't be any seldom-visited places anymore in a few years for anybody. The worst case is of course, a wide trail being built there. Most trail destination are of importance, and do create a certain sense for the overall picture of awareness to our environment, but it's where they are put and where they lead that needs to be scutinized.

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote View IP address of poster
Allison
Feckless Swooner



Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics
Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes
Allison
Feckless Swooner
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 12:37 pm 
I would say that anything written by someone called "Randy Busch" would be highly suspect.

www.allisonoutside.com follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
Member
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 12:43 pm 
"Chris, do I remember your position correctly that you oppose the creation of the new wilderness area near Index because it would limit access and possibly close some existing Forest Service roads?" Yup. "How would that be "concern for wilderness values", and not be "trying to purposefully increase impact"? Access over protection was your arguement, no?" Because access to roads *already* open, and areas *already* clearcut, isn't increasing impact. The most severe of possible human caused impacts have already occurred. No additional number of feet or wheels on pre existing roads will come anywhere close to the impacts already caused by logging. If the new wilderness designation covers areas not already cut, I don't have a problem with it whatsoever. In areas where there are not roads I don't support new ones. My concern for wilderness values applies to areas where such values still exist. Clearcuts a half mile on a side don't meet this criteria IMO. Also, by supporting keeping access open, that's all I'm doing. I'm not pushing use of any one road, I'm not pushing for increased usage explicitly, only supporting that access be maintained for those who choose to take the time to find places they'd like to go. Just as I support people who are interested in off trail destinations in wilderness, without supporting the publicity of *particular* destinations which haven't seen many feet.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
Randy
Cube Rat



Joined: 18 Dec 2001
Posts: 2910 | TRs | Pics
Location: Near the Siamangs
Randy
Cube Rat
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 3:58 pm 
My name is appearing too much in this thread, so I’ll take the bait. All this talk about me having anything to do with Karen’s new book is really unwarranted. All of the credit for its completion goes to Karen and all the hard work, passion, and dedication she put into it. I have not seen the book yet, but knowing Karen’s writing and the types of places she enjoys I’m sure it’s a fine piece of work. In reality, I had next to nothing to do with its content. Karen and I walked several of the old trails she was proposing to put in the book together, but I was more or less following her to some of her favorite places. I was just along for the good company and good views to places like Paris Creek and the road up to Granite Lakes. I also helped out with a couple of the maps; maps for places like Troublesome Creek. I think my role in this book had more to do with supporting Karen through the multi-year process - the type of support that comes with being a friend. Never did I divulge information on places I consider to be pristine, untouched or worthy of a “secret”. No need for me to reiterate how squeamish I can be about giving information on my fave places to explore. Writing a book sounds like an exciting and interesting project to undertake, but in reality there’s a lot of BS and politics that come with it, especially in the guide book realm. Karen had a lot of fine people supporting her and providing help when she needed it; anyone from a hiking partner just for some company to someone to e-mail late at night when things weren’t going too well with progress on the book. I played this role much more than any other.
Quote:
In case members of this distinguished panel aren't aware there is a detailed report to Rainy Lake by Randy Busch on Vtrail, a website easily accessible to the public. It appears predating Karen Sykes' book.
And? There is more than one report over at WTA predating my vtrail report. Dreisbach’s route description in his book predates my report as well. The CAG alludes to the route as well, predating my report at vtrail. The MFK web-site has an in-depth route description and pictures which also predates the vtrail report. The FS has flagged and explored the route on several occasions in the past few years (it’s now on the latest GT map); Ira Spring has publicized the route and lake. I’ve been up there 5 times in the last three years, everytime I’ve cleaned dozens of flags from the route. The word is out on this one, and it was out long before Karen or I came around to hiking it. I say let a few more people find Rainy. Throw them that bone, and keep them from the real su-weet spots in the area. I hope ya'll have (and will) be showing the same concern with the M FK paving project as you have with this lake. And to the little sewing circle of folks out there who like to pass on degrading and insulting e-mails amongst themselves and to people they think they know, well, you really should be more careful who you send this stuff to. Normally I wouldn’t want to be caught up in this BS for anything, but when it's directed at the group of people I hike with and consider friends, then I take it personally. Not only does it make you look unintelligent, but it gives a bad name to some of the quality individuals (whom I have a lot of respect for) that make up the groups you help represent. Randy

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
Allison
Feckless Swooner



Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics
Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes
Allison
Feckless Swooner
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 4:56 pm 
Well, for what it's worth, I was totally kidding.....unless of course this wily and intrepid "RB" character was maybe trying to throw us off the course of some "su-WEET" little pile of fish laden water he found.....and what's all of this about the little circle of emails? How come I'm not getting those? Or am I? dizzy.gif

www.allisonoutside.com follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
Randy
Cube Rat



Joined: 18 Dec 2001
Posts: 2910 | TRs | Pics
Location: Near the Siamangs
Randy
Cube Rat
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 7:03 pm 
Nah, come on, we're buds...none of that was directed at you. And no, pretty sure you didn't get any of the e-mails in question.

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
Tom
Admin



Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 17835 | TRs | Pics
Tom
Admin
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 7:23 pm 
Secret sewing emails? Oh don't tease us further with these tidbits! I feel like such an outsider - this is worse than being left off the secret hike distribution wink.gif.

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
catwoman
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 888 | TRs | Pics
Location: somewhere near Tacoma
catwoman
Member
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 7:26 pm 
Same here! And the secret pub trail distribution list, too!

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
polarbear
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 3680 | TRs | Pics
Location: Snow Lake hide-away
polarbear
Member
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 7:38 pm 
I haven't seen the book, but I suspect several of the hikes have already been written up in the P-I's getaways, e.g. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/getaways/28247_hike21.shtml

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
polarbear
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 3680 | TRs | Pics
Location: Snow Lake hide-away
polarbear
Member
PostMon Mar 11, 2002 7:45 pm 
Oops, maybe I should log in and do things right in case I need to edit. I doubt Paris Creek is going to be mobbed this year because of either the article or the book. Maybe a few people will visit it. Has anyone added it to their list out there? It seems like alot of us mostly like hiking to lakes, peaks, or fishing places. Most of the crowds will continue to go to Snow Lake, Lake Annette, etc. But if I start hearing people in Rosalyn singing "I Love Paris", then it might sway me to think the book has had a larger effect than I thought. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm, after they've seen Paree?

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
   All times are GMT - 8 Hours
 This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Hidden Hikes in Western Washington - more places to explore
  Happy Birthday speyguy, Bandanabraids!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum