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Malachai Constant
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 2:14 pm 
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Dave Workman
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 2:16 pm 
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WHOA!  Time Out!
I started this thread with tongue firmly in cheek, and suddenly it has descended into the Twilight Zone.

BPJ is essentially correct in stating that there are probably as many scientists out there who dispute GW as a theory as those who support it. One can believe whomever one wants.

Sluggo, you're correct, the GW theories do predict more swings in temperature extremes.  It's what we call "CYA" so that no matter what happens, nobody can ever claim you're wrong and prove it. It isn't "crackpot" to challenge these theories, it's good science. Crackpots hear something they want to believe in, and hold firm regardless.

I didn't know GW was a "political" topic. Is discussing a scientific theory political? After all, GW is only a theory at this point; interesting and certainly intriguing, but a theory nonetheless. What's that got to do with politics?

Al Gore, a former politician, has championed GW as a cause. That's his business (and evidently business is pretty good), but he's not above criticism, humorously or otherwise. While he was in politics, he certainly gathered lots of supporters, but let's not mix politics with scientific theory, shall we? Gore is also a public figure by his own choosing, so he's fair game.  What would happen here if I asked Shirley MacLaine to come visit me in another life, preferably aboard a UFO, with a spare load of firewood?

Besides, far as I'm concerned, the subject is now moot. The sky is blue. The sun is shining. My snow has melted. I may even get to plow my veggie garden this weekend and there are blossoms on the trees outside.

To tell you the truth, right now I could stand a little global warming...so long as nobody tries to make me pray to it on an altar.
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Toonces
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 2:21 pm 
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Am I a bad person for giggling at opinionated people who still mistake weather and climate?   hihi.gif

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Backpacker Joe
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 2:30 pm 
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Toonces wrote:
Am I a bad person

Uh yes. moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif  moon.gif lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  lol.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif
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Malachai Constant
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 2:32 pm 
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Dave Workman wrote:
WHOA!  Time Out!
I started this thread with tongue firmly in cheek, and suddenly it has descended into the Twilight Zone.

Don't start on a political topic and not expect to get some static.

Dave Workman wrote:
BPJ is essentially correct in stating that there are probably as many scientists out there who dispute GW as a theory as those who support it. One can believe whomever one wants.

Wrong! There ae practically no scientists that do not accept GW. The opposition is centered on economists, politicans, libertarians, and free market enthusiasts. The evidence is overwhelming.

Dave Workman wrote:
Sluggo, you're correct, the GW theories do predict more swings in temperature extremes.  It's what we call "CYA" so that no matter what happens, nobody can ever claim you're wrong and prove it. It isn't "crackpot" to challenge these theories, it's good science. Crackpots hear something they want to believe in, and hold firm regardless.

Who is We? Have you ever bothered to read the actual evidence, I did not think so. There is a 50 page string in stewardship on this topic which include postings by actual scientists.

Dave Workman wrote:
I didn't know GW was a "political" topic. Is discussing a scientific theory political? After all, GW is only a theory at this point; interesting and certainly intriguing, but a theory nonetheless. What's that got to do with politics?

Give me a break "Only a theory" is lamest form of argument favored by creationists and flat earth types. The opposition on the other hand is nearly universally political and was started by a Right wing think tank founded to boost SDI then to oppose sanctions against second hand smoke.

Dave Workman wrote:
Al Gore, a former politician, has championed GW as a cause. That's his business (and evidently business is pretty good), but he's not above criticism, humorously or otherwise. While he was in politics, he certainly gathered lots of supporters, but let's not mix politics with scientific theory, shall we? Gore is also a public figure by his own choosing, so he's fair game.  What would happen here if I asked Shirley MacLaine to come visit me in another life, preferably aboard a UFO, with a spare load of firewood?

And you are saying you are not being political????What a crock!!

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Layback
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 2:36 pm 
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Slugman wrote:
Sheesh, do we need crackpot anti-global warming nonsense in every thread? Would it be too much to ask that people who don't believe in GW learn at least a little about it before denouncing it? GW theories predict more swings in temperature extremes, and more snowfall in many places. No matter how much snow we get, it can't possibly disprove GW in any way. And the cheap shot at Al Gore was uncalled-for. Mr Gore is ten times as intelligent as those who routinely trash him. In any case, politics is banned except in the Stewardship forum, and even then it must be directly related to the stewardship issue under discussion.  If the moderators would nip some of this nonsense in the bud, there would be fewer pointless arguments around here.

ditto.gif
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Layback
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 2:37 pm 
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Toonces wrote:
Am I a bad person for giggling at opinionated people who still mistake weather and climate?   hihi.gif

No.  You're a bad person for discussing the Red Sox.  Laughing at other's confusion of the two has nothing to do with it.
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Backpacker Joe
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 2:39 pm 
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Mal, you're not addressing his point of whether or not GW is in fact political?  Maybe he was thinking that the topic he started wasn't political in nature, or didn't have to bo.  If so then there might not be an expectation of static as you say......
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Backpacker Joe
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 2:39 pm 
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Whoa, Laydback and Sluggo agree!  There's a shocker. lol.gif  moon.gif  doh.gif  hmmm.gif
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Layback
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 2:40 pm 
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Backpacker Joe wrote:
Whoa, Laydback and Sluggo agree!  There's a shocker. lol.gif  moon.gif  doh.gif  hmmm.gif

Even Sluggs and me can find common ground.   hockeygrin.gif
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jackchinook
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 4:48 pm 
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Dave Workman wrote:
...there are probably as many scientists out there who dispute GW as a theory as those who support it.

Dave,
all politics aside, I would LOVE for you to qualify this statement.  I want to know who all these people are and what sort of 'scientists' they are.

I am a scientist myself.  I have a BS and an MS and I'm a practicing biologist by both title and duty.  I am often surprised at people out there who say things like, "oh yeah, I've been working as a meat cutter for the last 25 years, but I'm a X-ologist."  No offense meat cutters - I appreciate your fine work and would never tell you how to do it.

There are a pretty startling number of statements being thrown around loosely as 'facts' right now, certainly not limited to this forum, what with this snowy winter.

One snowy winter does not a trend reversal make.
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Tom
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Backpacker Joe wrote:
this is all about money.  Al had a net worth of around two million dollars when he left the office of the Vice President.  At the moment he's worth around one hundred million dollars.

Regarding Gore, saw the 60 Minutes segment the other night.  Pretty interesting.  His current wealth is a result of stock market bets that paid off, particularly Google.  While he made millions off his movie he kept none of it - instead donating all his proceeds to the cause.  Also, regarding his large house that tends to garner criticism - it's solar powered which few of his critics point out in their comparisons.
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Dave Workman
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 7:25 pm 
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jackchinook wrote:
Dave Workman wrote:
...there are probably as many scientists out there who dispute GW as a theory as those who support it.

Dave,
all politics aside, I would LOVE for you to qualify this statement.  I want to know who all these people are and what sort of 'scientists' they are.
.

Okay. Try these:
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=17568

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_4387552

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/11/07/weather-channel-founder-global-warming-greatest-scam-history

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.html?in_article_id=440049&in_page_id=1965&in_page_id=1965&expand=true

http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2007/03/05/the-great-global-warming-swindle-greenhouse-effect-is-a-myth-say-scientists/

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=22994


Now, do I steadfastly believe any of this? Not necessarily. But there's enough debate out there to cause some healthy skepticism.

Some people on both sides of this issue belong in the tinfoil cap brigade.

What about their credentials? I dunno. I've known people with various degrees they got from correspondence colleges. Maybe even out of cereal boxes. All of this stuff is theory. As i said earlier, it's interesting and even intriguing.

I missed Gore on 60 Minutes. I was working, as I am right now.

JC...what do YOU think of all of this? You're the scientist, according to your post. Your opinion is probably just as valuable as any of the rest of these guys, on both sides of the GW debate.

I just wanted Gore to come help me cut firewood, and BPJ was fairly accurate. I really don't consider GW a political issue. It's a scientific debate that is becoming bogged in demagoguery. I find that objectionable because it doesn't accomplish anything, especially when true believers start tossing around labels like "crackpot."  Some people called Columbus a crackpot. Ditto Galileo. Isaac Newton ring a bell? Ben Franklin?

One guy's crackpot is another guy's messiah. and vice versa. I try very much to keep that in perspective.

Now I'm certain I should have suggested Shirley MacLaine needed to bring me more firewood. shakehead.gif
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Toonces
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 7:47 pm 
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Hey Dave your first "source" cited has a BoD filled with Exxon, Amoco and GM execs.     rotf.gif

Any reason I should bother reading any further?   hmmm.gif

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global touron
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 8:03 pm 
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I'd trust Exxon at this point, but not sure about GM.   I notice Henry Ford posting in another thread.  Mabye he'll pipe in.

I've got an old Firestone LP of Christmas Carols.  Should I trust it? uhh.gif

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