[Malachai Constant]

We went up there dozens of times back in the "bad old days" most all the problems were in the first couple miles of road and some of the cowboy camps by the river. Lots of breakins near Taylor. Never hd a problem parking at the end and there was not any fresh glass. There were easier picking for vandals closer in. The road was a vandal trap as it took two hours to drive out with no other exit. Yeah you heard occasional shots up there but you also hear shots all up the 90 corridor, should you shut that down also?

[Bedivere]

I used to go up there all the time back in the '90s. Where they put the new campground was the "shooting pit", a gravel pit where we went to shoot our guns because it had a good backstop. Yeah, it was full of the usual trash such places attract. Gunfire was pretty common up there and it wasn't all confined to that shooting pit. We used to find piles of spent cartridges on the river banks in some of the camp spots and once had buckshot rain down on us from someone who was firing their shotgun up into the air. I'd also agree that it's not like it was a veritable wrecking yard up there. There were a few cars abandoned, but not tons of them. We got to watch the Army lifting them out with Chinook helicopters one day while we were playing paintball. I never heard about that chop shop until the last couple articles that have been linked. Interesting. The meth lab ended up at the end of a spur road that we used to use to access one of our favorite areas to paintball. Also, there used to be huge keg parties and apparently there was a shooting at one of them. The road definitely attracted a pretty wild crowd but all the troublemakers and partiers stayed in the lower valley, I certainly never saw any of that kind of thing going on above Dingford. The road was just too screwed up and too long for kids in their Hondas to want to drive up that far.

[MtnGoat]

[Damian]

Come on Sluggo. I spent many a trip up that road back in the lawless days. Never saw a single criminal roamin' free. Usually saw nobody. The problems were overstated for sure.

[Mtn Dog]

BPJ: The only purpose of the new gate was to temporarily close off the area because: 1. The road subgrade has failed in places and is now compromised. I wouldn't take the county car across the worst one and I was even sketchy about a few of the others. Closing it helps maintain public safety and there have been closures like this on far more frequently traveled roads as well in the last year. 2. There is construction activity going on to repair the slides and the trucks they are using are large enough that it became difficult to pass if you came up on one. Besides, you can't drive across a slide repair when the work is underway anyway. When the work is complete, the road will reopen I assure you.

[JPH]

Well, I guess I can scrap my plans for Big Snow this spring...

[Bedivere]

Big Snow is still accessible from Lk. Dorothy, though that's definitely a longer and more involved route. Given the looks of that bridge, I'd say Big Snow Mt. is going to be right in the middle of a very lonely area of the Alpine Lakes for quite some time.

[Mark Griffith]

I was up there this morning. We got there at 5:30 am, no one around. Road Closed signs in place. We parked by the side of the road. Upon my return to the truck I find a King County Sherrif who informed that Road Closed means CLOSED as in no traffic, vehicle, bike or foot. The construction guys wanted him to tow our vehicle but he didn't! Yeah! They do have "No Hikers" penciled in on the sign, but we honestly didn't see them in the dark, we put on head lamps just past the sign. So you've been warned. Apparently there have been confrontations and "close calls" with dump trucks almost hitting folks so the construction guys like to barrel down the road and don't want folks parked in the way. I asked him why they didn't move the Road Closed signs just past the Mailbox parking lot and "open" up the parking lot and his reply is when they do that they get people parking in the lot and then overflowing down the road and its not big enough for the dump trucks to get by (driving at 40 mph I might add). He said that the current estimate for opening the road is June but that lots of people are complaining and so they were considering running construction 24 hours. He also noted that on the weekend when they are not doing construction (for now) that it would be "ok" (in a kind of "he guessed type of way) to park and go the the trail head.

[Tom]

[Mark Griffith]

[yukon222]

I could see them ticketing you personally for hiking past the Road Closed sign but unless you parked in a No Parking Zone, I don't see how they could legally tow your vehicle. Of course, King County is so fond of the No Parking Zones at Little Si and Main Si trailheads (and Poo Poo Point along Hobart Road), I wouldn't be surprised to see them toss up more signs at Mailbox. Guess one could immediately start bushwhacking in the woods 20' off the road and follow that up to the start of Mailbox. You wouldn't be on the road or its' shoulder.

[Mark Griffith]

You'd still have to find a place to park, there really isn't much place to park down there that doesn't have you partially "on the road", unless you park in someone's driveway. As for walking, based on what I remember from this morning if you walked on the "south" or left side of the road while your walking to the trailhead you'd be in swamp cabbage and water and mud up to your knees, if you walk on the otherside you'd be on the steep slope above the river.

[Sabahsboy]

Well, being an old codger, I would love the Middle Fork Road be open and allow access to such "uninteresting places" as Taylor River. Sure would love to get all the way to the old TH road end...and did that only once, way, way back in 1980. At that time, St. Helens' ash blanketed much of Cascades, making hiking and backpacking a horrible chore and even life threatening (the dust was and is dangerous to the lungs). At that time, the area around Williams Lake had little dust and was considered "safe" for backpacking and camping (many areas really were possible if one wore a face mask to prevent breathing in dust that still remained on trees and was easy to stir up off the trail. One large problem is the decline of access to back country due to trail mileage loss or road access to trails; this has and will lead to more concentration of hiker/users on fewer trail miles, impacting those environments, whether wearing out new ruts in the trail, cutting new switchback "short-cuts", body waste at fewer campsites (degrading local environments or worse...if leaching into streams), etc. And, of course, the loss of "lonesomeness" of the wilderness experience. Recent Sunday walk at Wallace Falls State Park was telling, though the early season "nice weather" certainly created the swell of hikers and users on Woody Trail, a constant stream of walkers and dogs that was nearly unbroken the entire length of trail from Woody Trail gate to Middle Falls (mid-way) viewpoint. Fortunately, nature did not "call" so I had no embarrassing moments; however, there was some newly deposited "T.P." to be found if scanning beyond the trail edges. The Wallace Falls State Park usage is often far in excess of any trail most of us will ever tread during summer season; however, even that trail system is now threatened by closure; State budget will soon be completed and Legislature will head home from the halls of Olympia. Will Wallace Falls State Park be closed? Sold or traded to Snohomish County for local park management (and even more limited funds)? Will State actually allow users to cross the park boundary to hike if the Park gates are closed and posted "No Trespassing"? If allowed to hike "freely", who will be called if there are illegal activities within the Park, especially if the public begins to take advantage of "no eyes are watching"? If allowed to access park on foot, where does the public park? The road, presently, has limited parking, some of which is actually posted by State/local jurisdiction as "no parking". And, Wallace Falls State Park is but one unit of the State's park system no in danger. Sure, most State Parks have little interest for the more "graduated" hiking public (i.e., Lake Chelan State Park, for instance). Washington's population is not shrinking to 1930's census level; thus, even if hiking users are shrinking in per cent, that number remains quite large as the population swells despite the severity of the present economy. Human nature and culture has altered to some degree during the last 200 years or so; prior to that most people really had no interest in wild places except to open them to mining, tree harvest, etc. and farming (just like the Amazon Basin is now experiencing, thus endangering Mankind to the loss of CO2 sink of the forest and consequent rise of greenhouse gases and the ever more worrisome rise of Earth's surface and atmospheric temperatures, etc. Heck, I apologize, I should not be preaching to the congregation...you all know the story of our fragile planet and global warming....

[Mtn Dog]

Mark and Tom: Yes, ROAD CLOSED actually means ROAD CLOSED. This is a federal regulation and the sign must be in black capital letters on a white reflective background. It's usually 48" across and typically placed on a barricade with three white and orange rails. It applies to any member of the public - with a vehicle, on a bike, or on foot. It does not apply to agency staff who must visit the site in the course of their job, contractor's staff and equipment while they are rebuilding the road/bridge, and local access to those who have no other way to get to their property. Violation of a Road Closed sign carries with it a $400 fine and you were lucky Mark, I know of other Deputies who wouldn't have hesitated to cite you for violating the regulatory condition. As for the contractor, the road is posted 35 MPH and prima facie speed limits are always law. I doubt the trucks were going 40 MPH but lets not nitpick, you do want them to get the construction done and the road reopened in a timely manner, don't you? If you do then stay off the road and let them git 'er done! The word at King County is that the road is accessible to hikers on weekends (especially Mailbox Peak) but not during the week while construction is underway. The county section of the road, which goes a few miles past the main river bridge, will be open in about a month and a half - early June? The Forest Service may have it open to the campground by later this summer - August perhaps? ...and no one is driving past the Taylor River Bridge for a while.

[Mark Griffith]

Yeah that is how the sign was signed. I honestly had no idea that it mean't we couldn't walk on through, I interpreted it to mean "closed to cars". But I wanted to post this to let folks now don't tempt fate or the long arm of the law. Thanks for clarifying. I am very grateful we didn't get the ticket or the tow. And yes the trucks weren't going 40mp but they looked "fast" And yes I want it fixed as bad as anyone else.