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Flash Gordon
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Flash Gordon
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PostTue Jun 08, 2004 9:05 pm 
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Since there are less forest service personnel over the past years, less trails being maintained, and more volunteers doing trail maintenance, where does the revenue from trail passes go?

Also, check this link out

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/outdoors/2001945344_nwwout03.html

The Feds will be at REI in Seatown talking about trail damage...
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Backpacker Joe
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Backpacker Joe
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PostTue Jun 08, 2004 9:22 pm 
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Probably some mock general fund.

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

Abraham Lincoln
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mgd
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mgd
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PostTue Jun 08, 2004 9:29 pm 
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I went to the  slide show.  It was an excellent presentation by the Forest Service and National Parks.  There were slides of damage done to Hwy 20, the Cascade River Road, and other roads and bridges in the Olympics, MNRP and Glacier Peak Wilderness.  I was very impressed with the level of know-how (not that I know anything, just that the speakers really shown in what they were talking about) and the amount of progress on repairs that has already been made in some areas.  If the presentation is still being shown, go see it if you haven't. up.gif   It's amazing what nature can do in a short amount of time.

If the repair money comes from forest passes, that is fine with me.  They have already collected my money from last year, and this is a good way to spend what they collected.  However, I still don't like the forest pass program, and I still think Congress is delinquent in properly funding the Forest Service.  I still think one should not have buy a pass to walk the Troublesome Creek path, and I can't be convinced otherwise on this.  Taking a walk at Troublesome Creek should be just as free as taking a walk in a city park.  This type of recreation should not require the purchase of a pass. agree.gif

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jimmymac
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jimmymac
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PostTue Jun 08, 2004 9:30 pm 
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skip_tracey wrote:
The Feds will be at REI in Seatown talking about trail damage...

If I'm readin' right, the Feds' Monday presentation has already come and gone. (m'nite, as it were.)

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"Profound serenity is the product of unfaltering Trust and heightened vulnerability."
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Flash Gordon
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Flash Gordon
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PostTue Jun 08, 2004 9:45 pm 
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Crumb!  I really should pay more attention to things like dates....
I don't really agree with trail passes, but when I get up in the mountains, it seems a small price to pay.  The forest service does maintain the trails even if they didn't build them.
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Brian Curtis
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Brian Curtis
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PostTue Jun 08, 2004 10:27 pm 
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Flash Gordon wrote:
where does the revenue from trail passes go?

The specific forest by forest accomplishment reports can be found here.
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Allison
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Allison
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PostTue Jun 08, 2004 10:37 pm 
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The money that you spend on a Forest Pass stays in the district you bought it in. As much as it pains me to grudgingly participate, the FS stopped getting proper funding from Congress right about when they stoppped doing any substantive amount of logging on FS land. Not that they got to keep any of that money, but now Congress looks at them as a bit of a red-headed stepchild.

So, I guess we gotta do our part by buying passes. Be sure to buy your pass in the district you want to give you moolah to.

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Rich Baldwin
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Rich Baldwin
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PostTue Jun 08, 2004 10:41 pm 
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Or do two days of trail maintenance and turn in the two 1-day volunteer passes for an annual pass.
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Quark
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
PostTue Jun 08, 2004 10:53 pm 
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How funding works was discussed at the slide show.

As an example, I had asked Gary Paull to discuss the cost of a footbridge - some of them were over $60,000.  He advised of the cost of airlifting a good cedarlog or two  a heli-crane is $7200 per hour (multiple loads are dropped if rebar  & concrete is used as well) the union wages of the chopper operator (you'd want the best there is), the designer, engineers, the contractor, etc.  At least one bridge will have to be completely re-located, necessitating an Enviro Impact Study.  One bridge is still intact, though a little bit downstream  - but an aircrane will be needed to either lift it off site for repair and brough back, or if deemed safe, the crane will still be needed to adjust it back into place.

A crummy thing for the NPS is that the Fed approves salary increases withing the National Parks -but it doesn't provide funding for those increases.  Of course, the National Parks' damage repair is already underway.

Remember the PCT was the one most hit with this damage, and it's made for horse use.  The bridges must be built to withstand these 4 legged customers, so smaller footlogs aren't good enough when a horse ford is not available.

The FS is the one hurting most.

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kleet
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kleet
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PostWed Jun 09, 2004 6:44 am 
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What color are Trail Park Passes this year? I need to get the right color paper for my printer.

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jimmymac
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jimmymac
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PostWed Jun 09, 2004 7:16 am 
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Kleet wrote:
What color are Trail Park Passes this year? I need to get the right color paper for my printer.

Don't know. Mine have been white. And free.

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"Profound serenity is the product of unfaltering Trust and heightened vulnerability."
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marta
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marta
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PostWed Jun 09, 2004 8:05 am 
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At the Mt Townsend trailhead, the local FS had posted a detailed list of what repairs had been made on the trail with Trail Pass money and exactly what had been spent. It would be great if more of this information was shared.

I noticed it on the way out and didn't take a lot of time to study it but it was very interesting. If someone happens to go up there again, it might be nice to get more details because it helps to answer the question "Where does the money go?".  I remember one was for a llama outfitter who carried up supplies for trail repair.
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Backpacker Joe
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Backpacker Joe
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PostWed Jun 09, 2004 8:55 am 
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Quote:
What color are Trail Park Passes this year? I need to get the right color paper for my printer.

Good one Kleetster.

I wonder if he is being serious?




TB

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

Abraham Lincoln
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kiliki
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kiliki
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PostWed Jun 09, 2004 10:10 am 
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On each NF website is a link to "recreation fee accompllishments." This is what they are spending the $ on.
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Mikey
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PostWed Jun 09, 2004 8:30 pm 
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Quote:
the FS stopped getting proper funding from Congress right about when they stopped doing any substantive amount of logging on FS land. Not that they got to keep any of that money, but now Congress looks at them as a bit of a red-headed stepchild.

Apparently an audit of the USFS showed the districts were keeping the $ from logging sales instead of depositing them in the US general fund.  A recent  (within the last 2 months) newspaper article stated the USFS was still doing this and implied this was an incentive for the USFS to promote timber sales in their districts.  For sure there are USFS employees out there who understand this topic of finance and budgeting and how the monies are handled but are not likely to discuss the topic on this forum.  Although city, county, state, and federal government budgets and expenditures are supposedly  "open to the public", from my experience it is difficult to impossible to obtain and examine them.
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