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What is the point of this post?
For everyone to add an emoticon one edit at a time.
Wiki summmary last edited by zimmertr on Tue May 14, 2019 6:34 pm (this post can be edited by any member)
Wiki summmary last edited by zimmertr on Tue May 14, 2019 6:34 pm (this post can be edited by any member)
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HundsSolo Baby Step Hiking :o)
Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 1435 | TRs | Pics Location: Olympia, Wa |
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HundsSolo
Baby Step Hiking :o)
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Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:07 am
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In regards to signaling mirrors. I believe this suggestion has been submitted previously but its worth mentioning again. Besides carrying a survival mirror in my pants I also carry a CD in my pack as back-up.
Its mirror finish with the hole in the middle is probably just as good or even better. A good suggestion for a CD is to hang it on a tree branch where the sun can reflect off of it so can be seen by SAR.
The Mountains are Calling - I must go and PLAY!
If you don't Respect Mother Nature, Mother Nature won't respect you.
Wag More and Bark Less
MooandLu
The Mountains are Calling - I must go and PLAY!
If you don't Respect Mother Nature, Mother Nature won't respect you.
Wag More and Bark Less
MooandLu
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kite Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 1416 | TRs | Pics Location: Olympia |
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kite
Member
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Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:03 pm
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allays unbuckle your hip belt before taking off your pack...
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Blue Dome Now with Retsyn
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 3144 | TRs | Pics Location: Cleaning up the dogma. |
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
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Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:39 pm
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Don't do everything you see on Man vs. Wild.
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
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LittleHikerMom Mom to a little girl
Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 1855 | TRs | Pics Location: Everett, WA |
Blue Dome wrote: | Don't do everything you see on Man vs. Wild. |
How bout don't do most things you see on Man vs. Wild, haha
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awaygirl Member
Joined: 07 Oct 2010 Posts: 131 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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awaygirl
Member
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Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:00 pm
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If you had to pick between a compass and a GPS device - which would you pick and why?
I have a feeling people will say compass since it doesn't require a charge - but a GPS can give you a precise location, so even if you have it on for a limited time - it might be ultimately more helpful.
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Hulksmash Cleaning up.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 7113 | TRs | Pics Location: Arlington |
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Hulksmash
Cleaning up.
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Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:31 pm
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awaygirl wrote: | If you had to pick between a compass and a GPS device - which would you pick and why?
I have a feeling people will say compass since it doesn't require a charge - but a GPS can give you a precise location, so even if you have it on for a limited time - it might be ultimately more helpful. |
A compass by it's self is about as useful as a bic lighter with out fuel. Ya can still light a fire with it but it is going to take a lot of skill. You got to have a map and a compass. Still you have to know how to read and orient the combo. If there are no land marks a map is not all that useful.
To me battery failure is a shallow argument spare battery's are a few grams. Big whoop. Sure you can drop and break a GPS....but that can be said with a compass too. Been there done both. You still need to actully know how to use a GPS. In the end to less skilled....i do agree a GPS will be ultimately more helpful.
"Bears couldn't care less about us....we smell bad and don't taste too good. Bugs on the other hand see us as vending machines." - WetDog
Albuterol! it's the 11th essential
"Bears couldn't care less about us....we smell bad and don't taste too good. Bugs on the other hand see us as vending machines." - WetDog
Albuterol! it's the 11th essential
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BeyondLost Crazy Bob
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 3601 | TRs | Pics Location: Whidbey Island, WA |
Won't suck me in to this premise.
They are each wonderful tools and I'd never be without both and good maps.
Now which do I actually use?
Pretty much only the GPS in the last 5 years.
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Backpacker Joe Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001 Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics Location: Cle Elum |
Map? Compass? GPS? Sure buddy!~ None of that is necessary if you just take Borank along with you! He's a living representation of all of those things.....
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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veronika Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 3015 | TRs | Pics Location: On the road |
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veronika
Member
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Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:41 pm
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Is all of this ABSOLUTELY neccessary on a well maintained trail if you have no plans on leaving the trail?
Take risks not to escape life, but to prevent life from escaping
I may not have anyone rocking my world right now but, I don't have anyone messing it up either.
Take risks not to escape life, but to prevent life from escaping
I may not have anyone rocking my world right now but, I don't have anyone messing it up either.
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Gsnorgathon Mile-per-hour club
Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 129 | TRs | Pics
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Gsnorgathon
Mile-per-hour club
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Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:44 pm
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There was a well-publicized incident a few years ago in which a woman headed back to the trailhead before her partners and took the wrong fork in the trail on the way down. I've done some inadvertent off-trail stuff myself, where what started out as a nicely defined trail faded off into nothing, and a map and compass made finding my way to the real trail a lot easier.
Part of the reason for the 10 essentials is that your plans, even if very modest, don't always work out. Then what?
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godsfireworks Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2010 Posts: 16 | TRs | Pics
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I had a close call during a trip to Monte Cristo trying to find the Comet Mine. We were hugging the cliff face on the Old Man side of the gully and I was in back. Aparrently all of my group (there were 5 of us) made it a point to tell each other to watch out for the loose slab of rock at least 5 feet by 7 feet and about 2 feet thick that was on the cliff face. I didn't hear anything so I unknowingly grabbed onto it to help pull myself up.
My friend later told me that from his perspective he thought I got the message. But when he looked back I was clinging to the very rock that was dangerous. As he looked in horror the huge slab began to detatch slowly from the cliff face, preparing to fall and crush me before sweeping me into the gully 100' below. He screamed at the top of his lungs "MICAH!!! NO!!!!" and I looked and saw the crack widening and shoved against the cliff with all my might. the slab settled into place with a slight grating and I quickly moved away. that could have been the end if he hadn't shouted.
Volcanoes are gods fireworks
Volcanoes are gods fireworks
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oldwhiner Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 279 | TRs | Pics Location: when not on a trail - S. Puget Sound |
kite wrote: | allays unbuckle your hip belt before taking off your pack... |
Unbuckle your chest strap first! You wouldn't believe...
Dreaming - a wistful dilemma between hope and disappointment, perpetuated by occasional bouts of happiness.
Dreaming - a wistful dilemma between hope and disappointment, perpetuated by occasional bouts of happiness.
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oldwhiner Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 279 | TRs | Pics Location: when not on a trail - S. Puget Sound |
HiT wrote: | Is all of this ABSOLUTELY neccessary on a well maintained trail if you have no plans on leaving the trail? |
HiT - Oh yeah. At least a map & your brain, then compass, then maybe a GPS. IMHO the best way to deal with being lost is staying found.
Even in summer on "close-in" trails there are plenty of unsigned turns and places where trail damage and repair have changed things. Also it easy to get off route thinking a game trail off the end of a switchback is the real thing. I've had to deal with friends' hypothermia once and heat stress twice. Knowing how far we were from cars and help was handy.
Rant warning! I know some are put off by map & compass tech but it's not too bad. On topo maps I consider creeks and ridges to be like cross streets and count how many of which I've crossed or traveled beside. I squint at contours and the "shading" helps me see the 3D shapes. getting the map in my head a few days before I go really helps. Compass and GPS help confirm I'm oriented on the ground.
GPS is wonderful but it can tell you wrong info and you need enough map info in your head to tell if you should believe it. One spring day my GPS told me I was on the south side of the snow-melt roaring Quilcene River where the trail runs on the north bank. No way had I crossed the river without realizing it! I'm an ex-survey technician. I was trained by the Trimble factory staff. Even with today's receivers signal can bounce or be weak and not provide the data the software in the GPS expects. But our little machine carries on with the math and spits out positions anyway.
Have I made a sale? Couldn't help notice your signature. Ironic on this topic, eh?
Dreaming - a wistful dilemma between hope and disappointment, perpetuated by occasional bouts of happiness.
Dreaming - a wistful dilemma between hope and disappointment, perpetuated by occasional bouts of happiness.
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Malachai Constant Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Avy watch for tomorrow
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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gb Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Posts: 6310 | TRs | Pics
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gb
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Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:20 pm
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Many of the replies on this thread talk about equipment. As has been said by a few here safety equipment is a back up in case one screws up or encounters bad luck.
I think one important thing that I've learned is that the choice of an outing for a particular set of conditions and weather has a lot to do with safety. Pick the wrong destination especially for winter, x-country travel in alpine terrain, or climbing and you may be setting yourself up, even if you make no other mistakes.
For example, with respect to avalanche safety the choice of a trip and route and even micro-routefinding has to reflect expected conditions and observations that may run counter to initial expectations. Many people think avalanche safety in the backcountry is all about becoming an expert with respect to snowpack, using science as it were. Well there are two approaches, scientific, which works for avalanche control where avalanche results are expected, and pragmatic, where one has a rough (or better) idea of stability and then is selective in destination choice and route-finding as is appropriate for the conditions. The latter approach is more effective from a safety standpoint in the backcountry. The scientific approach is not only limited by lack of experience but also by the fact that the variables are just not well enough known and the snowpack in critical situations usually varies any way.
In xc travel in the warmer months weather is still a significant consideration in trip choices and routefinding decisions. Mushy snow and very hard snow can be dangerous. Bad weather can not only cause routefinding errors to be made but can create emotional pressures that make it more likely that a bad decision could be made. Three times in my lifetime I've moved my tent in the middle of the night because of bad lightning storms and twice I've just gone outside for two or three hours away from danger in the pouring rain because of lightning. Once on the NE ridge of Mt. Goode I spent 11 hours in a bivouac sack as nearly constant lightning remained centered on Black Peak just 4 miles away. We probably were in a very dangerous position on Goode on a horizontal dirt and grass band that would have absorbed water and probably conducted electricity quite well. But we lucked out because, although we had hail and rain, the lightning itself never moved over us. Yet all but one of these lightning storms was predictable. Our timing on Goode was poor. In the other instances I should have placed my tent in a less exposed position.
In climbing, the combination of poor rock on some peaks (especially volcanoes) and in particular melting snow makes rockfall very likely. In those conditions gully or couloir routes are pretty risky. Such routes are better before there is much melt out and when the snow is well frozen. But in general, the more time one spends in and near gullies and couloirs, the more likely it is that something bad will happen.
Self arrest on snow, like safety equipment is used when a mistake has already been made. Timing is one potential mistake on snow, another is the specifics of the route chosen. For instance, it is much easier to descend a steep slope directly down the fallline than to do a diagonal descent (because of body mechanics) on critical steep slopes, especially with difficult snow conditions like a liitle soft snow over hard. Not even crampons work well in those conditions since they tend to ball up. Backing straight down may be an option. Choice of route matters.
There are many more examples where planning a route and route choices that reflect the expected conditions can make a big difference.
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