[DIYSteve]

[treeswarper]

My first pair was Asolos with goretex. I wore them when I was trying to be an engineer. The Oregon Coast range can be dampish and they did well for one or two years? I think I got my money's worth. One day when walking through a salal patch in the liquid sunshine, I noticed my feet were getting squishy wet, but the boots were well used by then. I've got another pair of Danners and the soles are starting to get worn out. I haven't worn them professionally so they've lasted about 8 years. The goretex still seems to work, and I wear them around my place. There's wet--squishy wet, and there's damp. My feet get damp in my leather boots. They get damp in goretex boots. They get really damp in my rubber boots. That's life. Wick dry socks make damp bearable and a boot dryer when you are working in your boots and going home each evening is a necessity. There's some surgical bootie type things called Bama socks. They wouldn't fit in my rubber boots, but some guys swear by them. You can buy them at Madsen's in Chehalis, I think. Or order them.

[texasbb]

All the GTX boots/shoes I've owned (probably 6 to 10 pairs) have worked flawlessly for a while (maybe a few months, depending on use), then leaked like sieves. But I still prefer GTX to non when I have a choice because they keep dust/sand out, generally for the life of the boot. If you're lucky like me and have not-so-sweaty feet, the grit resistance is nice. Note: I'm more a hiker, not a mountaineer.

[DIYSteve]

Those who experience GTX boot failures would not use the word "damp." "Saturated" and "sloshing" are more accurate terms. It's water seeping through the failed membrane; it just keeps coming and takes a long time (sometimes days) to dry out. IME, it's worst in wet late season snow, e.g., slogging up a glacier. NO, it's not water coming from the top of the boot. And, NO, it's not sweat. Why do some of you refuse to believe that this happens to many people? Why the strong emotional investment in your true belief that GTX is a miracle fabric that never fails and that anyone claiming otherwise is a liar?

[coldrain108]

My only pair that leaked like a sieve immediately were the Vasque Breeze - and they were garbage from all aspects. One 20 mile backpack trip and they gave up the ghost. Very light and comfy though...and cheap. I had 2 pairs of the Vasque Skywalks, the blue fabric ones, both wore out before they leaked - 2 or 3 seasons each. Wore out the treads on both...so they did leak from the bottom up. Right now I'm using Vasque Wasatch, 3 seasons old and no leaking at all. I like to wade streams rather than twist an ankle rock hopping. I don't spend much time on snow, mostly backpacking. In my climbing days I had a pair of older Asolo Yukons - pure leather for mountaineering - my feet were always frozen if I spent any time on snow. For me, only plastic climbing boots keep my feet warm and dry if I am spending hours to days on snow. I think it is crazy to expect gore tex or any such thing to stay dry for multiple days on wet snow. So GTX in mountaineering boots actually used for mountaineering probably makes no sense. Once those leather boots are wet they stay wet. I have stepped too deeply into a creek crossing with my Skywalks, filled the boot with water. Once I took it off and drained it they were dry again in just a short time. I have GTX shoes for my day to day walking needs - being a bus person I spend time walking in the rain. My feet stay dry. Regular backpacking vs mountaineering is apples vs oranges - both tasty fruit but vastly different fruit. There is my anecdotal story.

[iron]

schenk, if boots can be so easily punctured by grasses and whatnot, why, then, would goretex ever be a usable waterproofing membrane? wouldn't they be prone to failure every single time you weren't walking on asphalt or mt si-like trails? i suspect that most semi-satisfied users of goretex boots are those that stay primarily or entirely on trail. you know what? i could wear crocs on those trails and do just as well (i have, in fact, done this). every single person i know that hikes off trail (which is everyone i hike with) has GTX boots that leak and fail under a year. i'm switching to leathers, eventually, when i find the right fit. so GTX won't matter to me then. but, to say that GTX works in boots that are actually used as boots (and not just glorified trail shoes) is laughable.

[DIYSteve]

coldrain108 makes some great points. My only quibbles are: Good quality all leather boots can keep you dry on glacier/snow travel with the right treatments, and they can be functionally waterproof with screwed-and-glued supergaiters (which are not easy to find these days). Not sure CR108 means by "regular backpacking." For me, backpacking includes on-trail and off-trail travel, more often the latter for me. That is, backpacking>>mountaineering is an unbroken continuum and these days I'm usually somewhere in the middle of that continuum.

[Slide Alder Slayer]

Gore, eVent, Sympatex, or other proprietary laminates do not construct any footwear that I am aware of, they supply material only. So where does the fault lay, is it with the laminate or the assembly of the footwear? I’ve read the criticism so is Gore responsible for how the bootie and footwear is manufactured? Reviewing the concerns on this thread they mostly appear related to construction and or maintenance issues of the footwear and not the membrane itself. Mountaineering boots have the advantage of full shanks, thicker leather, and manufactures that put more detail into the construction especially the Gore membrane. My Nepal Evo’s have 3.2 mm silicone impregnated leather over the Gore bootie, extremely, waterproof as are my Lowa Mountain Experts. That being said my Trango S Evo’s like other mixed terrain footwear are in a different category and require cleaning and reproofing after each trip to maintain complete waterproofness. I have also had great success with non-Gore boots that were at least 2.7mm thick like the previous Scarpa Sl M3; with regular cleaning and treatment they maintained complete waterproofness. Now my Sl M3’s are my lawn mowing shoes, but they are still waterproof. So my observations are just that, personal observations and experiences; I disagree with the direction of the hole theory with Gore because any puncture has to go through the fabric and or leather of the footwear first, so how is that a Gore problem if the boot fails first by allowing a puncture? How is it the problem of Gore if under the stress of use a seam tears? How is it the problem of any laminate if the footwear is not regularly maintained and the leather cracks, wets out, and the lining is never cleaned? I do not believe Gore or any other laminate is the only answer to waterproof breathable footwear, I do believe that regular cleaning and reproofing is a requirement as the best way to maintain breathability and protect linings and seams of all waterproof breathable footwear.

[DIYSteve]

Gore ePTFE membrane is very thin and fragile. Anyone who has seen it and handled it should not be surprised that it is prone to failure from stretching. It's not pinholes. I believe that GTX bootie liners are seamless, so it's not seam failures. For the third time, the Gore engineer who confided in me concluded that GTX boot failures almost always result from stretched membranes. It only makes sense. Stretched membrane >> bigger pores >> water gets in. Treating leather aint gonna prevent stretched membranes.

[Schenk]

[Ski]

well..... sounds like you never tried Obenaufs yet. last time I doped up my Wescos was at least 3 or 4 years ago... feet are still dry.

wesco_jobmaster_042114

[DIYSteve]

IME, treated leather is way closer to waterproof than GTX boots after a few days of use.

[Schenk]

Big Steve...Now its just a few days before Gore tex boots fail??? So, a porous leather boot with some (you can name your favorite) waxy paste rubbed all over it, and some even making its way into the leather , is waterproof?? hahahaha....please explain how any wax or oil (natural or synthetic, still your choice) will prevent water from soaking into and through a leather boot once it has been flexed even once? How are the large holes (large to water) in leather plugged? How do they stay plugged while your foot flexes the boot? Now...show us where that same company makes that claim too (WL Gore doesn't have a monopoly on marketing). No..not even the companies making these boot treatments make claims like that about their product.

[DIYSteve]

[Malachai Constant]

I had a client who made dry and survival suits, the were told to try to develop a GT survival suit as they get ungodly hot if you exercise in them at all. I told them don't do it the stuff leaks! They followed my and competitors who tried failed. A leaky survival suit is a disaster waiting to happen.