[iron]

[DIYSteve]

joker, the PC LTH are torsionally pretty stiff, ample for many mountaineering routes, fine with strap-on crampons, but I'd want more for a really rugged route. PC LTH is way way stiffer than, say, Asolo 520 (which I would consider a soft trail hiker). Mammut Mercury LTH seemed closer to 520 class. Adding to my prior post re my experience with Gore products: I was an early Gore Tex adopter. My first GTX piece was an Early Winters anorak that I purchased in 1977 or 1978. It delaminated after a couple months of use. It was replaced on warranty several times. Each of the replacements quickly delammed. Gore had a relatively small outdoor product service team back then, and I got to know them quite well. They wanted to keep me happy because I was in the outdoor industry back then. I continued to work in the outdoor industry and in subsequent years Gore reps promised me that GTX was improving -- and they were correct insofar that it took longer for delams to develop, but every shell nonetheless delammed within a season or two. I got lots of freebies back then -- many of them in camo, all of which leaked after a season or less of use. IMO, the 1980s 2-layer/lined GTX era was the nadir of GTX products. My first GTX footwear were Montrails which I got free per an ultrarunning door prize gift certificate in the mid-1990s. The membrane in one of them failed after one hike. I replaced them with non-GTX trail shoes. For shells, I switched to less expensive PU-coated, which I found to be more water resistant for a much longer time, albeit far less breatheable. I continued to use GTX for skiing shells, which, IMO, is a good application so long as I avoided heavy rains (in which case I would get soaked). IME, GTX pants are second (to boots) as the worst application for GTX. I continue to use ePTFE membrane products as semi-VBs. They work great for that. I initially had high hopes for eVent, but it delammed at about the same rate as GTX. I took a chance on Neoshell. The first shell delammed within a couple months. I'm on a warranty replacement. Time will tell.

[Schenk]

[DIYSteve]

[joker]

Iron - thanks, again. Yes, in fact I was looking at their "light weight" boot and liking the looks of it but swapped in "mid-weight" when I typed that post. Good to see your firsthand thoughts on its durability and goodness for off-trail travel. BS - I don't tend to be a "shoe quiver" or "ski quiver" type of gear user, so I'm looking for boots that can serve me when I want to strap on crampons or do some moderate off-trail travel even with some weight on my back. If I can find both Mammuts in a brick-and-mortar store, I'll check them both out, but my guess from the comfort of a desk chair in front of a screen is that the PCT is probably a reasonably good match for what I'm looking for in a boot. If they are a bit stiffer than my current boots that would be fine, given that they are very close in weight. But frankly, despite the extra $, my knee jerk reaction is to gravitate toward the Limmers simply given my past experience with their boots and given the fact that they still have their "one seam" design.

[Schenk]

[joker]

[DIYSteve]

[Ski]

[DIYSteve]

Yup, but it'll keep you drier than GTX in heavy rain.

[Ski]

no argument there- maiden voyage was out of the Queets in a downpour on a July 3rd before any trail work had been done- 12-foot-tall salmonberry was soaked and all laying down over the trail - believe it or not that jacket kept the top half of me dry. but "breathability"? pfft! <edit 11:02 PDT> the "breathable" part of the precip is not my primary objection: the noise it makes with every move is what annoyed me most. it usually gets packed because it packs down so small, but rarely gets worn. again: only Gore-Tex item I've ever owned is those free Timberland boots, so I can't make any comparative statement about jackets.

[ScottM]

Just started using my latest Non GTX boots, Zamberlan Latemars.

boots 002

I've been a fan of leather boots for some time and prefer the non GTX because they breathe better and will dry a lot faster once they get wet. As others have said, it isn't easy finding non GTX boots. My previous pair were Sportiva Glaciers which I don't think they make anymore.

boots 003

Good pair of boots but I just destroy the fabric lining which is why I was looking for non GTX with all leather lining. The Zamberlan fit the bill when not many others did.

[Ski]

Scott do you happen to have an actual weight on that Zamberlan? Their web site says 940 grams (33.15 ounces or 2.07 pounds). Leather inner liner on that model?

[ScottM]

I don't have the actual weight of my boots. I can tell you that they feel slightly lighter than the Sportiva Glaciers but that might be due to the fact that the Glaciers have steel shanks in them. I would say they are probably at least 4.5lbs for the pair as mine are a size 12. I believe the web site is giving you the weight per boot and probably a size 9 which seems to be the size that boot manufacturers weigh to give specifications on. They are completely leather lined.