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Ski
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Ski
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 Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:17 pm |
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pnw.hiker - in answer to your question #2 above, see op-ed piece I cited above.
as for Fox news - I can't get inside Randy's or Steve's heads, nor do I wish to. But any time somebody here cites a story and I look at the URL and see "fox news" I usually just ignore it and move on. You can argue the point all you wish, but the bottom line is that they are simply not a credible news source.
That's not from the cited "study" (of a whole 612 people in New Jersey), that's from actually watching, hearing, and reading their blather.
As for the other "mainstream" media outlets- they all have some "agenda", and whatever they say has to be seen as coming through that.
Schroder's pretty much nailed it above: "Everything on TV news is trash and done for it's sensational value."
[emphasis mine in case you missed his post above.]
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:19 pm |
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| pnw.hiker wrote: | | RandyHiker wrote: | | pnw.hiker wrote: | | Fox might very well have botched one story, but certainly not the other example I gave |
This is our fundemental disagreement -- apprently your view is that when Fox mis-reports sometihing is is a rare event -- whereas my view is that it is rare that Fox reports a story accurately.
FWIW: I don't give a pass to MSNBC, HuffPost or any other news organization. I've had a number of experiences with stories covered in the media with which I had direct personal knowledge of the story. The stories reported in the media always differed greatly from the facts that I knew directly. None of these instances involved any sort of political issues -- just the distortions of mis-understanding by reporters and the editorial imperative to make a story engaging to the general public.
So as for your question of what do I think of someone that is skeptical of a fox news story, just because it is reported by fox news: "Wise" |
Again, you are focusing on Fox News to avoid the point at hand. |
| pnw.hiker wrote: | | How would you view someone who has blind faith that something is made up, simply because it was Fox News that reported it, without thinking or reading further? |
Huh ? what was your question?
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pnw.hiker
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| RandyHiker wrote: | | This thread is about the Bundy case -- not the Hage case. Bundy and Hage used different legal strategies and other facts about the cases are different. |
And yet that's my point; explaining the surprising support someone like Bundy is receiving by noting the feds' poor behavior in the area in recent years.
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Tom_Sjolseth
Born Yesterday
Joined: 30 May 2007
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| Ski wrote: | | Schroder's pretty much nailed it above: "Everything on TV news is trash and done for it's sensational value."
[emphasis mine in case you missed his post above.] |
Well at least we can agree to disagree, which is more than I can say about certain others on this thread.
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:59 pm |
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It is a frustrating topic because very few people understand about grazing allotments and the permit process and even land ownership. Never mind figuring out which agency...one report I heard mentioned it was the DNR!
Lots of "experts" who really aren't creating confusion and hysteria.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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markh752
Snoozing on a rock!
Joined: 03 Dec 2011
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markh752
Snoozing on a rock!
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:27 pm |
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| markh752 wrote: | | pnw.hiker wrote: | | BigSteve wrote: | This thread is not about Hage (whose case, BTW, was overturned by the U.S. Court of Appeals, a fact you rightwingernutjobs conveniently omit).
From the court order finding your hero Bundy a trespasser and authorizing federal agents to seize his cattle:
| Quote: | | IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Bundy is permanently enjoined from trespassing on the New Trespass Lands.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the United States is entitled to protect the New Trespass Lands against this trespass, and all future trespasses by Bundy.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Bundy shall remove his livestock from the New Trespass Lands within 45 days of the date hereof, and that the United States is entitled to seize and remove to impound any of Bundy’s cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days of the date hereof.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the United States is entitled to seize and remove to impound any of Bundy’s cattle for any future trespasses, provided the United States has provided notice to Bundy under the governing regulations of the United States Department of the Interior. |
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I don't see where it states the feds can go on his land and destroy his private property. Did I miss it? |
Question, did they destroy Bundy's personal property or did they destroy Bundy's "improvements" on BLM land? I ask this since a FB friend (Nevada cowboy) of mine posted/shared/liked about this before the media circus arrived. From what I've seen (aka my interpretation) on FB (again... before the media circus), Bundy quit paying his grazing fees since BLM wasn't making the improvements that were in the lease agreement. So he quit paying the lease and made his own improvements in lieu of grazing fees.
My sympathies to Mr Bundy if he was wronged by BLM in the lease. Regardless, he should have went through the proper channels if BLM wasn't holding up their part of the lease. He quit paying on his lease and lost any "rights" he may have had many years ago. |
Helllooooo, toot toot, honk honk. pnw.hiker, you there? 
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pnw.hiker
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| markh752 wrote: | | markh752 wrote: | | Question, did they destroy Bundy's personal property or did they destroy Bundy's "improvements" on BLM land? I ask this since a FB friend (Nevada cowboy) of mine posted/shared/liked about this before the media circus arrived. From what I've seen (aka my interpretation) on FB (again... before the media circus), Bundy quit paying his grazing fees since BLM wasn't making the improvements that were in the lease agreement. So he quit paying the lease and made his own improvements in lieu of grazing fees.
My sympathies to Mr Bundy if he was wronged by BLM in the lease. Regardless, he should have went through the proper channels if BLM wasn't holding up their part of the lease. He quit paying on his lease and lost any "rights" he may have had many years ago. |
Helllooooo, toot toot, honk honk. pnw.hiker, you there? |
Heh, sorry I'm not hitting the refresh button every three minutes.
If you have been carefully reading this thread you'd know the Washington post article (link I gave earlier) seemed to say that; Bundy's stuff on his property. But the reporting on this has been poor, so I offered another example, perhaps you missed that too.
Speaking of "toot toot, honk honk", I've yet to hear BigSteve answer for himself.
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pnw.hiker
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MadCapLaughs
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Yeah, that was a good article, with lots of good links embedded in it.
Surprising, since it comes from Salon -- which is a sham of a news organization.
There is a link to footage of the standoff that got Bundy's son tasered. Worth a watch. You can clearly see the aggressiveness of the protesters as they ignore warning and continue to approach officers.
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Ski
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Ski
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:38 am |
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pnw - did you mean to say "Washington Times" up there? (instead of "Washington Post"?)
MCL - I don't know much about "Salon" - that came up when I was clicking links in other articles. I thought the author raised some pretty valid points in the piece.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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JVesquire
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Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 993 | TRs | Pics
Location: Pasco, WA |
I really like Bundy's insights on race relations. Quite the patriot. From today's NYT:
| Quote: | | “I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.
Continue reading the main story
“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.” |
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:01 am |
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| pnw.hiker wrote: | | But he also ignored the less-suspect story |
that cited Fox News as its sole source  which, of course, makes it equally suspect.
There is NO credible report that the feds destroyed any improvements on land owned by Bundy. By all appearances Fox Noise fabricated that notion and Sun Myung Moon's Washington Times (yup, the Washington Times was founded and is owned by the Moonie cult church) merely echoed the deceptive notion, citing Faux News as its sole source. This is the Fox Noise/Moonie Times echo machine at work: repeat a lie until its uneducated sheep constituency believes the lie to be the truth, e.g., "death panels." Fortunately, Fox News is in terminal decline as its fabrications get weirder and weirder and its old angry white men sheep die off.
Fox News' lies about Bundy don't stop at the deceptions echoed by Rev. Moon's Washington Times ragsheet. See Fox News’ worst Cliven Bundy lies: 22 right-wing delusions about the absurd standoff
Also see Study: Watching Fox News Makes You Less Informed Than Watching No News (study confirms that NPR listeners/PBS watchers are the most informed -- no surprise there)
The facts: Bundy has been in contempt of court for years. He has been adjudicated as a trespasser. He build improvements on BLM land on which has continually trespassed. Those improvements thus belong to the federal government, and destruction of those improvements (if that actually happened) would be well within the U.S. Marshall's scope of powers to enforce the court orders.
If you trespass on land in violation of a court order and build something there, you have no right to it and no right to complain if it is destroyed. That's how the law works. Sean Hannity's lies cannot change that.
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:28 am |
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| Schroder wrote: | | Everything on TV news is trash and done for it's [sic] sensational value. |
Largely true, but there is at least one exception: PBS NewsHour
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Schroder
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Schroder
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:40 am |
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| BigSteve wrote: | | Schroder wrote: | | Everything on TV news is trash and done for it's [sic] sensational value. |
Largely true, but there is at least one exception: PBS NewsHour |
 My wife regularly watches this and I do sit and watch this if I happen to be in the room.
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pnw.hiker
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| BigSteve wrote: | | pnw.hiker wrote: | | But he also ignored the less-suspect story |
that cited Fox News as its sole source which, of course, makes it equally suspect. |
It was a video interview with a Sheriff, BigSteve. How is that suspect? Did Fox News use their infamous mind control ray to make him lie on camera? 
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