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Token Civilian
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Token Civilian
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PostFri Jun 13, 2014 10:51 am 
I must be an outlier here in NWHiker land, especially on the Stewardship topics. I find it amazing that topics over which an individual has somewhere between negligible and zero influence (IMO, compared to the magnitude of the issue) can generate so much "spilled electrons", while those issues where an individual and their actions can have a large, measurable effect on our trails generate so few comments and views by comparison. 340 comments and 12,000 views on "too many people". 233 comments and 9,000 views on a "silly little climate change" thread 6800 comments and 297,000 views on another climate change thread. 478 comments and 54,000 views on snowpack. 393 comments and 12,000 views on whack jobs with guns - in (BLM) and out (the other nutters) of the government. Where are these consistently high levels of interest when it comes to clean ups? What about that level of interest in actual on the ground in the dirt stewardship of the trails? It's great (IMO) to see the active threads on the Olympic Park plans, Green Mountain and roads - those are all things (IMO) where an individual CAN actually shape the course of events and the physical outcome on the ground to a significant degree. Perhaps its just my personality - wringing my hands about snow isn't something I can control, so I don't get all worked up about it, I just deal with how much snow there is, or isn't. I'd rather spend my energy focused on things I can actually change. I'm looking forward to trail crew season on the PCT. Its something where I can see and experience the impacts of the efforts. To each their own I suppose.... I guess it would be enlightening to me to hear the perspective as to WHY those topics (snow pack, BLM, etc) draw such interest and the cleanups and trail crews and topics like that don't.

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PostFri Jun 13, 2014 11:22 am 
dunno.... my first off-hand guess would probably be that's it's something along the same line as people's fascination with hollywood celebrities (looked at the magazine rack at a supermarket lately?) and the numbers of reader comments on online articles about weird hairstyles, two-headed cows, or people being run over by trains. you could try to "look at it in perspective", but it still won't make sense: Enchanted Valley Chalet thread: 6 months / 315 comments / 25000 views wolf thread: 16 months / 535 comments / 27000 views another wolf thread: 7 years, 3 months / 2712 comments / 197000 views Dosewallips Road thread: 6 years, 6 months / 107 comments / 25000 views and then consider a thread where the only action required is writing a letter: Olympic National Park Wilderness Stewardship Plan thread: 3 months / 107 comments / 6300 views if we knew what punched people's buttons and motivated them to take action, we'd all be rich. who knows? it's the internet. you want to try to make sense of it?

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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PostFri Jun 13, 2014 11:29 am 
another thing which I've always found curious here is that something in "Stewardship" receives far less attention from members than the same subject would in "Trail Talk". the "Enchanted Valley Chalet" thread is probably the best recent example. and most people are basically lazy and are here for amusement or just to pass the time. they're not logging in looking for a way to get their hands dirty or expend energy and invest themselves in doing actual physical work like volunteering for beach clean-ups or trail reconstruction, or to engage in discourse about lands management issues (which generally requires endless hours of reading incomprehensible government documents.) on that last one, I've done it myself several times: I just get burned out and have to turn the computer off for several months and give my brain a rest.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostFri Jun 13, 2014 12:35 pm 
Token Civilian wrote:
I find it amazing that topics over which an individual has somewhere between negligible and zero influence ... I guess it would be enlightening to me to hear the perspective as to WHY those topics (snow pack, BLM, etc) draw such interest and the cleanups and trail crews and topics like that don't.
Just a guess, but the climate change and population threads are topics where individuals have very little influence but collectively people can have a lot of it. That need for cooperation (in order to have any influence) is probably what drives so much conversation.

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wolffie
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PostFri Jun 13, 2014 12:52 pm 
Token Civilian wrote:
I'd rather spend my energy focused on things I can actually change.
?? You can't change the weather? I do it all the time. When I want a sunny day for hiking, I just keep wishing for it until it happens. Works every time.

Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
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tigermn
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PostFri Jun 13, 2014 1:05 pm 
Most people don't come onto a forum like this to change they world. They probably have some idle time and want to be entertained with the occasional visit to try and actually get some trip/trail data etc. People thus get to hide behind/use their alter ego/internet personality and act however they want (like they would not do in person), and have that outlet as well.

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Hulksmash
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Hulksmash
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PostSat Jun 14, 2014 9:54 am 
Thank you for posting this Token Civilian. rocker.gif Two posts stand out to me.
Cyclopath wrote:
Just a guess, but the climate change and population threads are topics where individuals have very little influence but collectively people can have a lot of it. That need for cooperation (in order to have any influence) is probably what drives so much conversation.
Regarding climate change, if we encourage cooperation to stop driving gas guzzlers, leave a few minutes earlier and drive the speed limit, not race from stop light to stop light, allow others to merge....there will be a measurable effect on carbon emissions. Better yet more money in individual pocket books and possibly drive down fuel prices with less demand. Yea what color is the sky in your world?
tigermn wrote:
People thus get to hide behind/use their alter ego/internet personality and act however they want (like they would not do in person), and have that outlet as well.
I'm not gonna try to be PC with this one.... shakehead.gif If ones moral compass is tuned to "it's ok cause it's anonymous" they are just generally an ass hole. <- Would ya like me to repost this with my real name not just my silly pseudonym alter ego? Here's my theory. It's really easy to whine and hope someone else dose something. By the way here's a photo of someone else doing something.
Congress Woman pushing a wheelbarrow
Congress Woman pushing a wheelbarrow

"Bears couldn't care less about us....we smell bad and don't taste too good. Bugs on the other hand see us as vending machines." - WetDog Albuterol! it's the 11th essential
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