[Kim Brown]

Leave No Trace ethics say that inorganic material left in the forest is considered trash. People are cited for trash on the forest; I can't cite the cite, but perhaps someone can find it before I do, but I'm not that interested in proving that flagging is trash, and for wilderness areas, even if it's made of organic material (surely someone here will try to squeeze that by ) the flagging deteriorates wilderness values. It also harms wildlife that might ingest it. Splitting hairs about a sign being nailed to a tree is splitting hairs, though yeah, it is pretty funny. But how else would the sign be posted. Administering the forest is a bit different from tying plastic flags on vegetation. Administrative flagging is necessary for management, and is meant to be temporary; hiker flagging sometimes is, sometimes isn't. It's likely that more often than not, hikers do not remove their own flagging so that when others see it they simply remove it. Nothing wrong with that. If you must flag, you run the risk of someone removing it before your descent. Flaggers know that going in, or should. Learn how to read a map. Take notes on your way up.

[fourteen410]

To clarify, I have no problem with XC flagging provided that it is removed on the way out by the person who left it there. I don't consider flagging a violation of LNT if you remove it on the way out. My problem is with people who believe they have the almighty discretion to remove it simply because it violates their philosophy.

[Brian Curtis]

[AlpineRose]

Sheesh. Anyone worrying about this needs to just stay home.

[Studebaker Hoch]

[DIYSteve]

SH, you might be imaging a problem that doesn't exist. Treads do form on popular XC routes, e.g., Ptarmigan Traverse after the snow melts has a tread on both sides of Red Ledges, both sides of Yang Yang Lakes, etc. But those treads are obvious, and do not require flagging nor cairns. Where cairns can help keep people on established treads, I'm okay with appropriate placement of cairns to keep people on the established treads. OTOH, less traveled routes, e.g. [I aint sayin'] have no treads because they see few parties, and those parties travel in a dispersed manner. If someone were to place cairns or flagging, treads would soon develop. It only takes a couple parties a year for a couple years to beat in a tread. Why flag a XC route? Modern GPS units eliminate any need for flagging XC routes. One can simply mark a waypoint rather than place a flag.

[Brian Curtis]

[tom roy]

What irritates me the most is down here in SW Washington there are a couple of places I hike loops regularly for exercise. And organized trail runs have left flags all over for the runners to do the right loops. Just a few weeks back they left their flags all over the Hamilton Mt trails in Beacon Rock state park. I see how runners need this on both places I go there are many loop options. But take your flags with you for some of us this is home. I am less irritated by them in the back country but with the new technology they should be needed less. BUT PLEASE DON'T SPRAY PAINT ROCKS I have seen this on MT Thielsen, McLaughlin and in BC. Rants over

[DIYSteve]

Yeah, spray paint, e.g., the bright orange paint on >200 trees on the route to Airplane Lake, is friggin' awful. FTR, when organized trail runs get a permit from USFS or WA State Parks, the permit requires that flagging be removed within X (e.g., 48 hours) after the race. IME, the RDs are very diligent about removing all the flagging, lest they might not get a permit for subsequent years.

[joker]

[Studebaker Hoch]

[Studebaker Hoch]

[Stefan]

I wonder what would happen if people used TOILET PAPER instead of plastic marking for their routes?

[wheatie]

[DIYSteve]