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NacMacFeegle
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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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| Doppelganger wrote: | | A better look at Service Falls was one of the first things that jumped to mind when considering how drones might be put to good use |
I can think of a number waterfalls that are hard to get a look at, as well as a few especially rugged and inaccessible canyons. An aerial photo of that rock arch near Windy Gap in Mt. Rainier National Park would also be cool.
| Doppelganger wrote: | | Let's not pile it on too thick. Asking people to take personal responsibility is fine. This stuff you've written is pure paranoia and dips into the realm of the ludicrous |
I agree, however such paranoia is fairly normal with the introduction of every new technology. Of course there is the potential that some individuals will misuse drones, but I don't think it is as important an issue as some people think.
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Kim Brown
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I'd rather Service Falls can remain a wonderful out-of-reach mystery than allow drones. There is no "need" to see Service Falls, and I can't see how it would be a "good use" of drones.
I'm not paranoid about people seeing me nekkid when I'm in wilderness; but the only time I'm exposed to any extent is when I'm squatting - it's not exactly the most flattering position, and I don't want drones around when I'm doing it.
Even if all I'm doing is filling a water bottle or sitting on a rock - I go to wilderness to get the hell away from society without feeling like my wilderness experience is being invaded, even from a far-off drone.
It's the principal of the thing - remember after 911 when cameras were being installed in the Statue of Liberty - folks - including myself - were saying, "well I'm not doing anything wrong, why should I care?"
Well, I think differently now.
I'm not afraid I'll end up in a porn movie filmed by a drone - I just don't want to live in a George Orwell or Ray Bradbury novel. Favorite reads, but I like that to remain in a fiction novel.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Ski
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Ski
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 Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:49 pm |
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| Kim wrote: | | "I'd rather Service Falls can remain a wonderful out-of-reach mystery than allow drones. There is no "need" to see Service Falls..." |
There is a set of excellent shots of Service Falls on the web if you look- taken from a helicopter at different angles. GoBlueHiker made a hell of an attempt, but couldn't get close enough for a good shot.
There's something about the idea of bringing the most remote and mysterious places on earth directly to every desktop and touch-screen smart phone that somewhat diminishes the essence of what they are.
Doppelganger- The voyeuristic video won't be uploaded to YouTube- it will be found on various porn sites, where contributors are paid for the material they submit.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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cairn builder
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| Doppelganger wrote: | Let's not pile it on too thick. Asking people to take personal responsibility is fine. This stuff you've written is pure paranoia and dips into the realm of the ludicrous, please cite your source of information for the apartment incident. Yes, the actions you describe are despicable, but apply reason to what you are saying - you seriously propose that someone would lug a drone into the backcountry to record other campers? I haven't gone looking for this kind of stuff, so it's possible that it's out there, but I have never seen any drone videos made by creeps while grazing Youtube.
I think the guy who lost his drone in Grand Prismatic should be made to figure out how to retrieve it, then be put on 4-5 years of thermal feature cleaning duty throughout the park wearing a sandwich board describing his transgressions.
Edit: A better look at Service Falls was one of the first things that jumped to mind when considering how drones might be put to good use, I remember how hard GoBlueHiker had to fight just to get a glimpse. A drone would give us unobstructed views of the entire falls, something that very few (if any) people have seen. Drones are not designed to be instruments of evil  |
Look, I'm not typing this with a tin foil hat on. You seem like a pretty reasonable person so try to consider my point here.
As a general rule, women tend to be less comfortable in the wild than men are. And in general, women do have reason to be concerned for their safety (more in a city than in the woods, but perception doesn't always agree with reality, people feel safer driving than flying for example). I can't tell you how many good camps we've had to hike by because "I can't pee here. Someone could see me."
I don't personally think hordes of perverts are going to Mount Rainier to film women bathe in warm tarns, but that's besides the point. These drones have been used for peeping tom purposes many times before. A creepy old man once told my friend's wife "I saw you pee" after she stepped off the PCT. Women are occasionally stalked on the PCT. I trust NPS with drones, but not just anybody who can pony up the money for one. My wife is more sensitive to this stuff than I am, and if she is I'm sure there are others like her. They deserve to be able to feel safe.
And of course you haven't seen any pornography on youtube. I haven't seen any meth at work, that doesn't mean drugs are never a problem.
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cairn builder
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | I agree, however such paranoia is fairly normal with the introduction of every new technology. |
You're right, new technology is exactly what the wilderness needs. 
Of course you're also the guy who wants to build a system of luxury hotels in the wilderness and ban human powered recreation like bicycles in favor of gas burning drones.
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Doppelganger
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Ski
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Ski
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Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:29 pm |
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from the few videos I've seen on YouTube it appears these devices are battery powered.
for those who don't believe there's a potential here for problems, go to Google and type in "upskirt".
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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NacMacFeegle
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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 2653 | TRs | Pics
Location: United States |
| cairn builder wrote: | | NacMacFeegle wrote: | | I agree, however such paranoia is fairly normal with the introduction of every new technology. |
You're right, new technology is exactly what the wilderness needs.
Of course you're also the guy who wants to build a system of luxury hotels in the wilderness and ban human powered recreation like bicycles in favor of gas burning drones. |
I have stated several times on this thread that I don't want drones in the wilderness. Also, I support trail shelters (not luxury hotels  ) as a means of decreasing human impact by concentrating camping in a few permanent structures. Also, on the subject of bicycles my opinion has always been that they are not appropriate for many trails, but that there are areas where they are acceptable (I enjoy bicycling myself!). Finally drones do not necessarily have to run on gas, many run only on electricity.
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Doppelganger
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Kim Brown
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| cairn builder wrote: | | I trust NPS with drones, but not just anybody who can pony up the money for one. |
This is how I feel as well. If used for administrative or SAR purposes, I'm OK with that.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Ski
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Ski
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Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:26 pm |
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again.
currently they're conducting a census of the elk population at ONP using helicopters. one has to wonder if perhaps using an unmanned drone instead might be less costly, and whether it would allow them to get to areas where flying a helicopter might pose a hazard to pilot and crew or wildlife.
SAR/administrative/wildlife study/wildfire monitoring: yes
private/commercial use over public lands: no
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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marta
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Joined: 07 May 2003
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marta
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Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:21 pm |
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| Quote: | | Who here has actually seen/heard a drone in a National Park? Or anywhere else for that matter? I don't think the drones in parks issue is as important as the media has made it seem. |
We were at Rainier on Sunday 17th. We were doing the Lakes Trail and returning to Paradise along Skyline Trail. Just as you drop down in to the Edith Creek basin, a guy was out in the middle of the stream flying a drone and his partner was walking up through the stream filming/taking pictures of the drone. A crowd gathered to watch. I remarked that I thought drones were illegal but there wasn't anyone around to enforce it. It wasn't just that he was flying it and another person was trying to photo it - they were both off trail and in the middle of the stream.
That's my question - how will it be enforced?
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RodF
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RodF
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Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:15 pm |
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Readers may recall this thread... SkyKING buzzes the snowy Olympic Mountains Part 1 Part 2 Part 3
 Eurocopter AS 350 B-2 
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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Kim Brown
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
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| marta wrote: | | That's my question - how will it be enforced? |
As anything else is - as it can be, and no more. But at least now, when someone is caught, there is a policy in place for ticketing or other kind of punishment; without a policy, there's nothing to enforce, ticket or punish.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Ski
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Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:26 pm |
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| RodF wrote: | | no complaints. |
Perhaps there were no complaints about a mid-winter flight over the uplands in the southeast corner of the Park. My guess is that there were probably not a whole lot of people up there at the time, either.
You will find noted in a couple of my trip reports on the Queets that I've had helicopters flying over me. I was particularly annoyed by one on my last outing up there, and did submit a complaint about it. Whether or not ONP does anything about it remains to be seen.
The videos I've watched on YouTube cause me to believe these devices are kind of noisy: emitting a high-pitched whining noise. I can't recall exactly where I read it, but one person described the sound as akin to "a swarm of angry bees".
Rod, I will forward to you my communications regarding the helicopter flights and the drones.
bk
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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