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Ski
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PostWed Sep 03, 2014 11:47 am 
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okay..... so I need to go get a pair of liners from Alex. easy deal.

I'm kind of wondering about the dirt/rocks issue. Damn hard to walk far with a shoe full of river sand grinding my toes up.
Might well go with those NB 'minimus' things- they're a bit heavier but they sure worked well wading/walking gravel bars/wading/brush-bashing/wading.

Need to stop screwing around and get packed. Forecast says we've got a four-day window of mid-80's weather coming here.

<edit> sent an email to Zem last week asking for weight on that model iron cited. no response from them yet.

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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DIYSteve
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PostWed Sep 03, 2014 11:53 am 
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I have 100+ camps in them and have had only a dusting on my sox, certainly never had them anywhere near "full" of sand.  They are the best camp/stream wading shoes Anita and I have ever used, largely because they are so light and compact, but of course some people are gonna bellyache cuz nothing is perfect.  If there's something better, as light and as compact, I'll trade up, but I yet to see it.  An Ultrapure without the holes would be the ticket.
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Ski
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PostWed Sep 03, 2014 12:23 pm 
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Quote:
If there's something better, as light and as compact

weights are above. 9.56 ounces w/o the liners. about half of what the 'minimus' comes in at. (needless to say no comparison to the Converse Hi-Tops.)
no argument on that point, Steve.
difference is: I'm in the river a good part of the day- sometimes that's a lot easier than bashing through alder thickets or scrambling up and over logjams.
so the sand is an issue. with the old Chuck Taylors, it creeps in through the two little vent holes at the bottom on the inboard side. amazing how much material will migrate through those little-bitty holes.
we're using them for entirely different purposes.

(with the liners they're about 2 ounces more than the 'minimus'. they were kind of a hassle to get on/off with the liner, though.... pretty tight fit.)

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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DIYSteve
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PostWed Sep 03, 2014 12:29 pm 
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Oh, okay, sounds like you are looking for river shoes.
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Ski
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PostWed Sep 03, 2014 12:34 pm 
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well.... wishful thinking on my part, actually.... I was hoping I'd be able to find something I could kick around camp in and do the fording/bashing in.... but my feet don't really like being in shoes all day... was trying to reduce the weight a bit. timberlands are probably 4 or 5 pounds, tevas maybe a pound and a half (not worth a damn fording repeatedly, even though GoBlueHiker says he had no problems, mine seem to come undone in the middle of the river...) was hauling the Chuck Taylors, but they must weigh 4-6 pounds wet.... so the "minimus" replaces the Hi-Tops... and I'm still hauling the Tevas.
difference is... I'm not just crossing the river to get over the other side to a trail.... I'm doing miles up and down the river channel.

I like the Vivos... (my mom and sister thought they were a bit nutty last night)... just take some gettin' used to, like everything else.

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Adohrn
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PostWed Sep 03, 2014 12:50 pm 
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Don't know which tevas you were using but some come with buckles not just Velcro straps.  Had some many years ago when I was doing a lot of kayaking and loved them.  The traditional velcro design was always coming unloose and driving me nuts.  At the time I think they were some kind of exclusive  special only being offered to river guides, and someone at Rei messed up and I go a pair.   The guy that started teva was a river guide on the grand canyon before going into footwear.

http://www.teva.com/s/TEVA-US/men-shoes/omnium/889830922474.html?source=shoppingsite_PLA_6148-BNGC-11&kpid=6148-BNGC-11&CAWELAID=,437697716&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=120013140000024553&cadevice=c
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Ski
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PostWed Sep 03, 2014 12:58 pm 
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no idea. have three pairs. first pair was $65 at Kirkland's in SLC almost 20 years ago. other two pairs were gifts. believe there's a pair of "Chacos" in the closet that have never been out of the box.
problem with the open-toed Tevas is: trails with roots. despite a dozen years of ballet, I can be a real klutz at times. hate bashin' my toes on those dang roots and rocks, so toe protection wading through brush is kind of a requisite.

<over and out. have to make a run to TJ's and the Asian store and then I'm outta here.>

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Adohrn
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PostWed Sep 03, 2014 12:59 pm 
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The ones I linked to do have a closed toe.
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DIYSteve
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PostWed Sep 03, 2014 12:59 pm 
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Ski wrote:
toe protection

VB Ultrapures aint gonna get you that!
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Ski
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PostWed Sep 03, 2014 4:01 pm 
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well.. put them on last night and so far have managed not to stub my toes!

packin' the NB's for now... have to get some insole inserts for these Vivos when I get back.

Adohrn I'll have to take a look at that link.... thank you.

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Conrad
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PostThu Sep 04, 2014 12:35 pm 
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If I were going to hike that far in the river, I think I'd wear my boots, w/o socks. That's an old 100 Hikes trick. All-leather boots don't soak up all that much water in my experience. Of course you can wear socks if you don't mind a pair of soaked socks.
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Ski
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PostThu Sep 04, 2014 8:02 pm 
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I used to do it all in the Chuck Taylors, but my feet got old and wouldn't put up with the abuse about 8-10 years ago. Other issue is that they start falling apart pretty quick hauling a pack- I used to go through two or three pairs in a season.
I've got a copy of one of Manning's guides where he speaks of his "trick" of removing socks for the ford and then putting them back on once he gets to the other side. Always sounded a little nutty to me- putting wet boots on over dry socks.

I guess old habits die hard.
Finally got everything ready to go. Have four pairs of footwear laid out on the kitchen floor. Don't know for sure yet which ones are going past the trailhead.

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Conrad
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PostThu Sep 04, 2014 8:42 pm 
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Ski wrote:
Always sounded a little nutty to me- putting wet boots on over dry socks.

It works. At least with the boots and socks I used to wear, the socks don't suck up much water from the boots. I haven't done this in a while--I usually ford in faux Crocs lately.
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Ski
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PostWed Sep 10, 2014 12:28 pm 
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Monday, September 08, 2014 11:39 AM

from: info@zemgear.com

"Thank you for your interest in ZEM's. We greatly appreciate your support!

The 02 Oxygen weighs 3.92 oz for your size (Euro 47/US 13)
For outlets please refer to our online store locator at this link http://www.zemgear.com/more/store-locator/
I hope you find this information helpful. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance."

-

More on the Vivo and NB "minimus" to follow.

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Ski
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PostThu Sep 18, 2014 1:09 pm 
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When loading my pack at the trailhead for my most recent big adventure, I had to choose between my old Tevas and the Vivobarefoot Ultra (Pure) for a "camp shoe".
I picked up the Tevas, and then I picked up the Vivos. Then I picked up the Tevas, and then I picked up the Vivos. Then I had to ask myself "Am I stupid?"

At 9.56 ounces (without the liners), the Vivos are less than half of what the Tevas weigh, and take up much less room in the pack.
BigSteve has repeatedly claimed these are the best thing since sliced bread for a "camp shoe", and I believe he may well be correct.
They weigh almost nothing, they're great for kicking around camp, and they work pretty good for a river-wading shoe.


On a gravel bar, scuffling back and forth did allow sand to get into them, but removing them and dumping out the sand took only a few seconds.
They work fairly well for wading a river, although they don't feel as secure as I would like without the liners in them.
With the thin soles, and without an insole liner, carrying a pack across a quarter-mile of gravel bar was a little hard on my feet. I suppose an insole liner might address that, but the liner wouldn't dry as fast as this shoe does: when I took them off and set them on sunny rocks, they dried faster than my feet did.

The New Balance "Minimus" MT10v2 Trail Running Shoe while not really a "camp shoe", is so far a great river-wading shoe.
At 15.47 ounces, the Minimus is pretty light.
They're fine in the water, and fast on the trail and through the brush. They do not dry out quickly. The old Converse Hi-Tops dry in about the same amount of time.
The users reviews on REI's website vary in opinion.
While mine did fine carrying a pack across gravel bars, fording the river dozens of times, crashing around in the brush, and walking up and down trails, after less than maybe 20 miles the "rand" started coming unglued at the toe.


REI was more than happy to exchange them for a new pair, and hopefully they'll hold up better. For $110 I believe it's reasonable to expect something marketed as a "trail running shoe" in Western Washington withstand mud, rocks, roots, and water.
If the second pair doesn't hold up, I may look at other options, but for now these are a great replacement for the Chuck Taylor All-Stars I've worn for decades.

The Tevas stayed in the truck, so I had a dry pair of footwear when I got back to the trailhead.

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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