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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
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Ski
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 Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:01 pm |
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| AlpineRose wrote: | | "Complaining about lack of it on the internet..." |
true.
| badger wrote: | | what we need are tougher laws and/or punishment |
false.
The reality is that there is an acute shortage of law enforcement presence on NPS, NFS, BLM, and DNR lands, the explanation for which is a lack of adequate funding.
If you talk to the people at any of these lands management agencies (which I've spent the last two days doing) you will get details which will astound you.
One person I spoke with suggested vigilantism as a possible solution, but in the real world I don't believe that's a viable option.
The solution (in addition to exercising necessary precautions by not leaving valuables in your vehicle) is to take the time to contact your elected federal representatives and ask that Congressional funding appropriations be made that are substantial enough to provide for adequate law enforcement on public lands.
Congressional switchboard: 1 202 224 3121
As to DNR lands: send a message to Governor Jay Inslee by contacting the Legislative Hotline 1 800 562 6000
That's four phone calls: one to Murray, one to Cantwell, one to your Congressional representative, and one to Inslee. It will take about 10 minutes of your time.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:10 pm |
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| Ski wrote: | | The reality is that there is an acute shortage of law enforcement presence on NPS, NFS, BLM, and DNR lands,... |
IDK There have been some recent articles in the Seattle Times about low prioritization by the Seattle Police Department on property crimes. LINK Basically if it is just stuff stolen (burglary) The SPD has bigger fish to fry and they tell you to file an insurance claim.
It's not just a question of police budgets, but it is also a question of prosecuting the criminals -- I suspect that the odds of a successful conviction on these sorts of crimes is low and even if successful the punishment is minimal, car prowling is defined as a Gross Misdemeanor -- which in WA is " Any crime punishable by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars, or by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than ninety days"
Courts already have long backlogs for more serious crimes, felonies -- e.g. robbery, assault and worse.
At least the WA courts are no longer wasting time prosecuting folks for smoking a little weed.
So basically I don't have any expectation that "the man" is going to protect my stuff -- either in my car or in my home. I just hope the car is still there and drivable when I get back to the trailhead.
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HitTheTrail
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Joined: 30 Oct 2007
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Location: 509 |
| RandyHiker wrote: | | I just hope the car is still there and drivable when I get back to the trailhead. |
Back in the day, my wife and I and one of my brothers came back to the Icicle River TH after four days in the Lady Lakes area to find my brother's truck had been stolen. State troopers found it a few days later down by Yakima along side the interstate out of gas. At least he got it back.
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Studebaker Hoch
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Joined: 04 Jul 2013
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| meandering Wa wrote: | | totally agree on this
every bit you can give to the police may help build a case for better protection and perhaps, just perhaps, tip a case against one person or group.
we are in this together and truth to tell, the car theft issue, has very much shut down my hiking on the 3 major corridors |
Hiking off the highways sucks anyway. All the trash from Seattle use those trails. That is partially why these break ins happen, they are easily accessible. How many breakins have happened at obscure trail heads?
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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
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Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:57 pm |
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okay okay.... I was hesitant to do this, but here you go:
This isn't about Seattle Police Department or King County Sheriff's Office or any other municipal or county law enforcement agency.
This is about LEO presence on federal lands. It's an issue I've been haranguing congressional representatives about for over 25 years.
Here are the numbers:
LEOs for MBSNF between the Carbon River and Hwy 2 = 1
LEOs between Hwy 2 and Canadian Border = 1
The LEO up north retires soon. then the guy out of North Bend has to cover the area between Carbon River and the Canadian border solo until they can get somebody else hired (which might be a while.)
(source: pers. comm. MBSNF 03/26/15)
per an email exchange today with someone I have every reason to believe knows what they're talking about:
LEOs for DNR lands in the Puget Sound basin = 2
look at a map. do the math.
County law enforcement cannot perform in the same capacity on federal lands as can a federal LEO.
Again, it will take ten minutes of your time to make those four phone calls. How much time have you spent reading this thread?
I already made the calls (for the umpty-eleventh time). So big deal. One phone call to DC and it's just some old crank on the horn.
If half of you reading this right now picked up the phone and made the calls it wouldn't just be some old crank - it would get noticed.
(And if you think the numbers I cited above are dismal for MBSNF and DNR, make a couple calls and find out how many LEOs are actually out in the field up at ONP or MRNP.)
make the call!
Congressional switchboard: 1 202 224 3121
Legislative Hotline: 1 800 562 6000
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:40 pm |
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I'm all for increasing LE officers in the NF -- however if the SPD with over 1800 officers can't take time to pursue car prowls in Seattle -- I don't think even a ten fold increase in the number LE's in the Mt Baker-Snoqualmie will significantly reduce the chances that your car will get hit.
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Bernardo
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Bernardo
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:10 pm |
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I usually leave the doors unlocked. A friend did this once and his was the only car at the TH without a broken window when he returned.
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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
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Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:07 pm |
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Randy-
Just because within the last 4 months my 83-year-old mother's purse was stolen out of her shopping cart at Safeway and my sister's dance studio was broken into and burglarized (for the fifth time in four years) and I know damn good and well TPD won't do a damn thing about either (let alone John Ladenburg's office) doesn't mean I'm going to shrug my shoulders in resignation and do nothing.
Whether making the phone call (or writing a letter) has any degree of efficacy remains questionable, but at least I know I made the effort.
Bernardo-
I was out with a co-worker in Seattle years ago. We took his old beat-up Toyota pickup and parked on a residential street somewhere up on Queen Anne hill. When we came back, every car on the block had the side windows smashed out except his.
In spite of all planning and precaution, there's no accounting for idiocy.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Magellan
Brutally Handsome
Joined: 26 Jul 2006
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Location: Inexorable descent |
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Magellan
Brutally Handsome
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:47 pm |
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| olderthanIusedtobe wrote: | | Still curious what any of you would recommend for someone road tripping. I don't really do it in Washington since I live here, but I've done it in various other western states. Tent, sleeping bag, some extra clothes, a bunch of food, reading material. There's no way to not have stuff in the car under those circumstances. Seems like too much to try to stuff in garbage sacks and hide somewhere near the trailhead. Not to mention you don't really want to do that with food, because critters could get into it. Anyone? |
| lanzscape wrote: | | You beat me to it. Every time someone posts about a car break-in, multiple posters respond that anyone who leaves anything of value in the car is a complete idiot and responsible for encouraging break-ins. I then have to reply that removing everything from the car is not always practical. I fly from Ohio to Washington, rent a car, and travel around the state. Would I leave a cell phone or my wallet in the car? No, but it's certainly not practical to leave the rental car empty, especially for an overnight hike when I have a week's worth of provisions plus suitcases and travel clothes. |
I really appreciate what you two are saying. While traveling, this does become tougher. I personally would try to find a motel nearby to house my gear/luggage. I would expect to pay for this service of course. Perhaps a local contacted through a hiking forum would be willing to hold some gear for you.
I don't think people should leave valuables in cars. The name calling doesn't start until people leave purses and phones on the front seat on purpose. It's not the purse owners fault. That jerk should not have broken into their car. Let's not make it so easy for them. Or keep doing it, so they leave my car alone.
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MikeBeebe
Seeking the Ur
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
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Location: Seattle, Washington |
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MikeBeebe
Seeking the Ur
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Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:27 am |
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| Ski wrote: | | I was out with a co-worker in Seattle years ago. We took his old beat-up Toyota pickup and parked on a residential street somewhere up on Queen Anne hill. When we came back, every car on the block had the side windows smashed out except his. |
I actually live on Queen Anne hill. I used to live in some of the worst ghetto, crime-ridden, street-thug dwelling places you can imagine. The ONLY time my car was ever broken into was on Queen Anne hill.
Go figure.
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Randito
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:55 am |
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| Ski wrote: | | Randy-
Just because within the last 4 months my 83-year-old mother's purse was stolen out of her shopping cart at Safeway and my sister's dance studio was broken into and burglarized (for the fifth time in four years) and I know damn good and well TPD won't do a damn thing about either (let alone John Ladenburg's office) doesn't mean I'm going to shrug my shoulders in resignation and do nothing.
Whether making the phone call (or writing a letter) has any degree of efficacy remains questionable, but at least I know I made the effort. |
Those situations suck and your mother's purse being stolen is a more serious crime -- robbery, which is a felony -- than the car prowls or sister's studio being burlarized which are both gross misdemeanors.
I think writing your congressional, legislative, county and city representative's is fine and worthwhile. I just don't have any illusions that increasing police patrols will *EVER* mean that these sorts of crimes won't happen.
FWIW: Car prowls at trailheads aren't a recent development -- I had a car broken into at the Colchuck lake trailhead in 1975 -- so it's not something you can blame on Obama or GOP house members. Maybe it is Nixon's fault.
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MyFootHurts
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Joined: 22 Nov 2011
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Location: Kekistan |
Still no mention of which trail head this happened at?
I bet it's at High Point where the homeless tent city is.
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Cyclopath
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Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:28 am |
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| RandyHiker wrote: | | I'm all for increasing LE officers in the NF -- however if the SPD with over 1800 officers can't take time to pursue car prowls in Seattle -- I don't think even a ten fold increase in the number LE's in the Mt Baker-Snoqualmie will significantly reduce the chances that your car will get hit. |
Seattle police are busy with noise complaints, domestic disturbance calls, shoplifting, people sneaking on the bus without paying, and so on.
I saw a sheriff at the Esmeralda basin TH once. Probably writing tickets for people who don't have a NWFP. Definitely wasn't there to tell homeless people to move to a different block. No cars were broken into while he was there.
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olderthanIusedtobe
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | Seattle police are busy with noise complaints, domestic disturbance calls, shoplifting, people sneaking on the bus without paying, and so on.
I saw a sheriff at the Esmeralda basin TH once. Probably writing tickets for people who don't have a NWFP. Definitely wasn't there to tell homeless people to move to a different block. No cars were broken into while he was there. |
I wouldn't think sheriffs would issue tickets for lack of NWFP. Not really their jurisdiction? USFS is perfectly capable of this, on numerous occasions I've seen Forest Service personnel on parking ticket patrol. I saw police officers at the Pilchuck trailhead one time.
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:16 am |
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Ahhh. I had heard it was the county sheriff who wrote tickets at trailheads. It would make more sense for USFS to. I wonder what he was doing there, then.
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