[MCaver]

Lately I've been thinking about what kind of vehicle I'd get next for driving around those Forest Service roads -- not that I'm in the position to get one right now -- and have decided that SUVs are pretty good except the gas mileage. I need a bigger one, but I'm questioning why something like a Suburu wouldn't work just as well. I just need clearance and room to sleep in back. I'm assuming Suburus get better mileage than my 18mpg Toyota RAV4. What's the clearance like on them? I drive some pretty rough roads on a regular basis. Can suburus handle the rough stuff? I found this interesting article too. Long, but worth the read: Why Not a 40-MPG SUV?

[Ice Girl]

i don't know much about Suburu, but i don't think they have as much clearance as my Honda, CRV does. It probably depends on what Suburu you were talking about. i think i could sleep in the back of mine. As far as mountain climbing, i have had my Honda in some places i couldn't even believe. i really couldn't as for a better little 4-wheeling car. Ice Girl

[MCaver]

My RAV4 has decent clearance, but it's underpowered (~120hp) and is a little small for my taste. I want something I can sleep in, and for the RAV4 anything but a fetal position requires moving the front seats all the way forward and stowing all my gear up front, and that's after having taken the back seats out completely. Otherwise, it's been a great mountain vehicle so far. I can't believe some of the places I've managed to get into (and out of) successfully.

[Planet Earth]

Ahh, drive big powerful car 75 miles to gravel road, then 4 miles up mostly smooth gravel that a unicycle could do backwards, then 0.25 miles on bumpy gravel that you could walk in 8.4 minutes. American way!! Spend big bucks to save 6.4 minutes out of a 90 minute journey to trail where you hike for 7 hours. Very American logical, yes!!

[MCaver]

Until you know where I've gone and what kind of car I needed, you and your assumptions and snobby tone can go yourself.

[NavandWife]

We've camped cross-country multiple times in our Jeep Liberty (our 2002 has 30,000 miles on it). The fold down seats are nice, one folds down about 2/3 of the back seat, leaving a small seat open to leave your pack on. The 4wd has not failed us in The Olympics, Yosemite in winter, or through Zion/Moab area. I like the options it has on different kinds of 4wd, full time (can leave it on for weeks in winter without damaging your vehicle) or part time (for seriously crazy off roading). It is not huge, when you put two people in the back you've got to like eachother. The mpg is as a usual suv, which I agree needs to be seriously looked at. Good luck finding the right one, the choice to spend so much money is never easy!

[MCaver]

Glad I'm not the only one putting so many miles of my vehicle. When I was getting new tires this weekend, the guy asked how many miles I put on my RAV4 every year. His jaw dropped open when I said at least 20k. Lately I've been doing at least 500 miles every weekend, and with the cloudy weather finally arriving, I'll probably be doing even more with trips to the Olympics. As far as size goes, I only really need something about a foot longer to give me enough room to sleep. I don't mind the overall small size of my RAV4, in fact if it was any larger there's a lot of places I wouldn't have been able to take it. But sleeping in it isn't the most comfortable simply because I can't stretch my legs out all the way.

[Planet Earth]

Wow, 20k miles with half the gas mileage means using a lot of fossil fuel resources from foreign sources, adding more pollutants to the atmosphere, spending tons of money... all to get up a few miles of gravel. I'll stick with my "snobby tone" because this is just the wrong thing to do -- selfish and wasteful, albeit very American.

[MtnGoat]

Wow, choosing to use up precious fossil fuels and pollute the biosphere for the completely selfish desire to go somewhere for fun. If you're that concerned about the planet vs the selfish desires of mere humans, you'd do a lot less damage by staying home in the first place. And I trust you never, ever travel by air in your quest for perfection.

[Planet Earth]

Ooh, touchy subject. How about a fuel-efficient vehicle to get to the trailheads (well, 95% of the distance), instead of an inefficient one whose only advantage is during the last couple miles of gravel? Duh, what if you need to bulldoze a short section of fallen timber? Should you drive a backhoe all the way from home?

[MCaver]

[Dante]

I've heard some of the old diesel-powered Toyota Land Cruisers (BJ60, HJ60, etc.) get 30+ mpg. Even if that's an exageration, they probably do as well or better than the fleet average for new US vehicles, which is in the low 20s. Not bad for a heavy duty 4x4 that will seat six. Backpacker Joe knows a guy who imports them from Canada. If you want to keep it green you can run it on biodiesel (see www.worldenergy.net). World Energy's biodiesel is available in Ballard. See www.fuelwerks.com. I run my 2000 VW Diesel on biodiesel or a mixture of biodiesel and the regular stuff.

[MCaver]

Sweet. Thanks for the info. I wonder if my apartment complex will let me put a big tank in from of my unit.

[Tom]

[Dante]

Backpacker Joe? Where are you with that diesel 4x4 info? His Canadian connection is totally rebuilding a 1984 BJ60 with the 3.4 liter 4-cylinder diesel right now. I want to talk with someone who actually owns one (or wait for BPJ to get one) to make sure the mpg claims are real. If they are, I might replace my Golf with one. It's hard to wedge three kids in the Golf and it doesn't like to leave the pavement. With 4 1/2" inches of ground-clearance a unicycle would be better These old Land Cruisers have AC and power-steering and that's it--no power windows or door locks to break. P.S. for more on biodiesel check out these links: http://biodiesel.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic http://www.biodiesel.org/ http://www.biodiesel.com or try a Google search