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Allison
Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
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 Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:34 pm |
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A little history:
The area was not included in the Wilderness, not because it was not of the quailty, but because it was hotly disputed, ostensibly because of the oil reserves. The bill was pushed through without the 1005 area designated as wilderness because there was concern over whether or not more would be lost if too much time went by.
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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Snowshoe Hare
Defunct lagomorph
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
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Doesn't ANWR (ANWildlifeRefuge) date back to the Eisenhower administration, when it was established with the understanding that if the need ever rose oil drilling could be allowed? It's been that way for many decades- so it's not surprising that someday those oil reserves might be exploited. Personally I'm against any drilling unless it was truly a last resort and I don't think it is right now. Things might calm down anyway when the price of gas hits $2/gal again. 
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
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Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Even the repubs in congress were against this (so they have something other than total environmental destruction to run on in 2006) so it is dead for the time being. I repeat it is all politics and therefore noise.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
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Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:57 pm |
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I thought it was part of this but reading it, I might be mistaken.
www.allisonoutside.com
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
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Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
What seems so strange to me is the apparent enthusiasm of some for this, if you were an oil company executive. or an attorney/lobbyist for them that I could understand. Similarly, if you owned a big block of stock of one of the involved companies (like me) then maybe. But for others who gives a f? The potential change in gas price or supply is miniscule, and the potential price is high. I must be missing something, but what?  Destruction for destructions sake has just never been real big for me.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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silence
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005
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silence
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Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:49 pm |
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Bottom line: it's still part of the Arctic Refuge - wilderness designation or not. If it wasn't an issue - wildlife impact, etc - then it would never have been added in 1980. But, go here to see what the experts say (download a letter to Bush from 1000 scientists) - as biased as they may be: http://www.defenders.org/releases/pr2005/pr021405.html
No doubt one can counter with some equally impressive oil company spin.
But, who do you want to believe considering their respective motives.
PHOTOS
FILMS
Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb. – Bob Dylan
PHOTOS
FILMS
Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb. – Bob Dylan
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Liason
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Joined: 10 Nov 2005
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Location: catbird seat |
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Liason
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Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:23 pm |
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| silence wrote: | | But, who do you want to believe considering their respective motives. |
Unless you don't use petroleum products, don't have family that use petroleum products, are not impacted by outrageous trade deficits or have no way to benefit from oil company profits ( which are recycled throughout our economy ),you share the motive. We are all in this situation where fuel is needed until better technology frees us.
I remember seeing a picture of Moose huddled under the Alaska pipeline for shelter from a storm, and I wish the deer would stop eating my landscape. I was down at Cape Kennedy last month, did you know it's a wildlife preserve. There is a massive Eagle's nest quite close to the Vertical Assembly Building, largest man made structure on earth/
Wildlife adopts to human presence, and often benefits.  Some Enviromental groups use hysteria as a fund raising tool, pays their salaries etc. - but who else is being helped ? Man's future depends on extractive industries, as has his past - but unlike the past, we have developed amazingly protective environmental engineering to minimize damage to the ecosystem. We are getting better all the time, far better than countries like China and Russia because the US has the best enforcement of any nation, and companies that screw up have huge liabilities! Exxon Valdize cost billions and the CEO lost his job, so now they retain the best technology available for prevention. 
Let Truth and Justice Prevail
Let Truth and Justice Prevail
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#19
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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#19
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Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:30 am |
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| Malachai Constant wrote: | | The potential change in gas price or supply is miniscule |
I read recently that it would likely only have a net change of one cent per gallon for a supply that will be available for less than 10 years. Fity cents a gallon wouldn't be worth it to me.
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touron
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touron
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Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:00 am |
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Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
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MtnGoat
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:20 am |
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| Malachai Constant wrote: | | What seems so strange to me is the apparent enthusiasm of some for this, if you were an oil company executive. or an attorney/lobbyist for them that I could understand. Similarly, if you owned a big block of stock of one of the involved companies (like me) then maybe. But for others who gives a f? The potential change in gas price or supply is miniscule, and the potential price is high. I must be missing something, but what? Destruction for destructions sake has just never been real big for me. |
i don't see what the problem is. the damage is blown way out of proportion IMO. i don't see it as destructions for destructions sake. what are we each supposed to do when we disagree this strongly? am i just supposed to cave, and go gee, i guess you're right?
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Guiran
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Joined: 03 Mar 2004
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Guiran
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Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:57 am |
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| Quote: | | what are we each supposed to do when we disagree this strongly? am i just supposed to cave, and go gee, i guess you're right? |
I don't know, maybe find common ground and reach an agreeable compromise.  Isn't that the idea of debating the issues?
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:29 am |
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sure. i already agree in principle with you in some ways. it's mc i have a harder time with. to me it seems he's farther out than either of us, so i'd have a hard time helping him with elections and such.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Liason
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Joined: 10 Nov 2005
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Location: catbird seat |
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Liason
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Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:11 am |
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| MtnGoat wrote: | | sure. i already agree in principle with you in some ways. it's mc i have a harder time with. to me it seems he's farther out than either of us, so i'd have a hard time helping him with elections and such. |
MC obviously thinks this area is most valuable left untouched, and he appears to find it a highly desirable place. Perhaps the solution to this impasse is for him to move up there!
MG could then relax since there is no internet connection allowed in the pristine wilderness.......end of debate 
Let Truth and Justice Prevail
Let Truth and Justice Prevail
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Tom
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Joined: 15 Dec 2001
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Tom
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Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:35 am |
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Goodbye SailBOI 
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Jamin Smitchger
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Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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Location: Pullman |
Drill in the ANWR, yes, yes, yes. You green people out there would probably scream about drilling in Antartica. Who cares about the minimal environmental impact that will be caused. All industry has some environmental impacts, but would you really want to live without industry. We have to get fuel from somewhere. Less environmental damage will happen if we get it from the frozen wastelands in Alaska than if we get it from the rainforests in ecuador.
http://forests.org/archive/samerica/rapayspr.htm
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