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sarbar
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Hiking Momma!
PostWed Nov 20, 2002 3:23 pm 
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I on't know if it's just me bothered by this but....
This summer I had purchased a couple new topos for areas in the North Cascades that were the 2003 edition. I though at the time: cool, I'll update for $4 a pop. Later on, I happened to compare the new to old. Has anybody else noticed that trails heading near the Canadian Border are "missing" on new maps? Yet this summer, in the mts hiking, the trails were defintly there with trail signs! Am I just getting paranoid of Homeland Security? Or is this going to be something that continues and more go off the maps? What next, the last 10 miles of the PCT "fading away"?

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Sawyer
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PostWed Nov 20, 2002 5:27 pm 
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I know the Florist Service sometimes vetoes certain trails on maps, and routes described in books. Well, at least they do when the authors check in with the authorities. I know this happened with the recent book "Hidden Hikes". And I know that trails dropped off "inventory" are taken off maps. This dropping of trails is great fun for the trail historian! Just got access to a bunch of two-generation old 15' USGS topos that will give hours of wintertime armchair fun.
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REJ
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PostWed Nov 20, 2002 5:52 pm 
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What trails are your referring to?  What map(s) did you buy? (e.g. Green Trail, USGS, Forest Service).  I am not surprised that trails crossing the border don't get the love they may deserve from the feds.  With the increased sensitivity for illegal crossings and drug smuggling, I suspect that the trend will continue.  For example, most of the trails on the west of Ross Lake that once crossed the border have not been maintained to the border for a long time (e.g. Hudson Way, Boundary Way, Silesia Creek, Chilliwack River).  East of Ross Lake, the Ross Lake road crosses the boundary at Monument 72 and trails cross(ed) at Monuments 78, 83, 85, and 92.
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sarbar
Hiking Momma!



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PostWed Nov 20, 2002 6:18 pm 
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I saw 3 trails disapear just on the Mt. baker map! That doesn't include any of the rest I noticed. Yet, I was passed by a border patrol up near Twin Lakes - soo....if these trails don't exist anymore then why are they up there?  biggrin.gif LOL!! Protecting the motherland from rabid Backpackers.....? Who are really intent on packing 75 lb packs full of weed? Across mts and talus fields....OOH! I know what I'm doing next summer! wink.gif

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Quark
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PostWed Nov 20, 2002 9:30 pm 
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sarbar - even though as Sawyer mentioned in his ill-punctuated post (the period goes INSIDE of the quotation marks, Doof), land managers and other agencies are aware the trails will continue to be used, which may explain why a border patrol was present - yup, there are drug smugglers on these trails wagging 75 pound packs (no word from Allison re lightweight titanium thai-stick weed?).  The trails, though abandonded, retain tread for many years due to continued use and vigilante maintenance workers like our Mister Sawyer of bad punctuation.  Hunters and other horse packers carry saws and other implements to keep the trails relatively clear of blowdown. 

Occasionally the Forest Service attempts to or is successful at resurrecting a once-abandoned trail.  Keeping an eye on trails through the years helps to determine demand, when the luxury of some spare money is wrested from the fists of the dandy, well-heeled Fed for our muddy and seemingly (to the Fed)unnecessary trails.
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Punk U. A. Shunner
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PostWed Nov 20, 2002 10:27 pm 
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Hey Quark, Sawyer didn't have any parentheses in the post, and you can't spel abandonded that way, and you put a question mark inside your parenthetical remark, and youforgot a space inbetween two words (well, the first word had a parenthesis at the end, so that is ok.).;'`~-><///....

Which is why your runon sentences. But enough about grahamer quackers.

Now, getting back on topic, I say that these 15' maps (and even an old 30' Skykomish map from 1901...); that a buddy at work loaned me are, like, totally awesome. I found a bunch of interested old trails from the pre-hippie era on these maps. Why, in those days... a trail was a trail. Was just reading in my 1962 copy of "High Trails, A Guide to the Cascade Crest Trail" (Robert H. Wills,), on page 13:

Quote:
Include a quality, lightweight, two-handed axe with a 2 pound head -- not a hatchet -- in your equipment list. One of the double-bitted, cruiser-type axes (ed. note: is this the plural of axis?)., or a single-bit poleaxe, depending upon personal preference, is ideal for the backpacker. An axe is an essential tool, regardless of the weight it may add to the pack. It will assure you of an ample supply of firewood where this may be available.

Sincerely,
Sawyer;
Punctuation Police;
Strunk and White Division;
Whassamatta U.
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Quark
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PostThu Nov 21, 2002 8:49 am 
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So, Punk....these trails you found on your new old maps - what are they "interested" in?  Har har har!

I love the old CCT.  I get all tingly when I poke around on it on the flanks of Glacier Peak near Glacier Meadows/Kallus Palms area (or is it really Callous Palms? D'you know where I mean?  It's the long flat spot above the switchbacks just S of the Whitechuck crossing on the PCT.  In my opinion, the old CCT traverses a prettier area than the PCT does near Lake Sally Ann; though the PCT there ain't bad, no not at all.
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kleet
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Joined: 06 Feb 2002
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meat tornado
PostThu Nov 21, 2002 12:58 pm 
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Enough with the Punctuation Rock! Could someone (sarbar) kindly answer the question? Which maps did you buy? Green Trails? USGS? Forest Service?

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Sawyer
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PostThu Nov 21, 2002 2:21 pm 
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Interesting Quirk... haven't yet explored the CCT in the Glacier Peak region. Boy do I wish we had another couple days of no snow! Gotta wait until next year. Darn the rotten luck, why does winter have to come at this time of year all the time?! I propose we move winter to, say, August.
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Agent oo7
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PostThu Nov 21, 2002 4:27 pm 
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But I would think that the forest service keeps track of these trails.  Do they just use old maps, or do they have a secret map which has everything on it  that is dropped off by the black helicoptors?
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lopper
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PostThu Nov 21, 2002 5:58 pm 
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Sure, they can delete trails from the Guvvment maps.

But they can't hide them from the likes of us.  The old maps are out there, and there are lunatic-fringe websites that compile some of our favorites.

snip snip. saw saw.
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sarbar
Hiking Momma!



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sarbar
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Hiking Momma!
PostThu Nov 21, 2002 7:28 pm 
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biggrin.gif Why do I know the MIB are waiting to bust in my house and find my old maps to haul away to be burnt? lol!
Seriously, they were Green Tail maps.
PS: one of my older customers at my work lent me a couple old maps of the Olympic Pennisula from the 50's that are wonderful! With old man Wood's guide book and those topo's I can find about anything smile.gif

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Sore Feet
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PostThu Nov 21, 2002 10:14 pm 
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lopper wrote:
The old maps are out there, and there are lunatic-fringe websites that compile some of our favorites.

Where pray-tell may these websites be?

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mb
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PostThu Nov 21, 2002 10:27 pm 
MoRa
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I've also heard mention that the green trails maps no longer have trails which cross the Mt. Rainier nat'l park boundary. They must be afraid of people smuggling dogs into the park. Or evading the fees. (I never understood why 6 people in a car costs the same as 2 on foot.)
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lopper
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PostFri Nov 22, 2002 8:57 am 
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lopper to sore feet:

Here is Sawyer's website:

http://www.eskimo.com/~sfox/TRAILS/abandon.htm
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