[Stefan]

Thomas Bentzen: From the WTA Website: I hiked to the Coney Creek crossing. The alder tree that someone made a bridge with is now gone. Plan on fording to go further. There is 6" of snow at the creek, none at the trailhead. Last weeks heavy rain has the river full of brilliant white rapids,lots of water running down the trail. There is a new pile of really big rocks at the beginning to keep the 4 wheelers out. This trail, an old road, accesses many old mines. You rarely see other people. It is a favorite for snowshoes. Beautiful any day of the year. Thanks again to those who improve the trails they walk on. Thomas? Have you seen the big rocks??????

[Sore Feet]

From what I've read / seen on some 4 wheeler's websites, most people of the off-road ilk don't seem to understand that placing boulders in the road means the trail is closed to vehicles. Maybe the FS ought to put a sign up?

[Mike Collins]

That should work for sure...if you are able to fill in the letters after the shotgun blasts hit it.

[Backpacker Joe]

Look, Im tired of this ELITIST attitude so many people have! I do NOT support building MORE roads, but the damn West Fork is ALREADY a road! Let me say that again, the West Fork of the Miller is ALREADY a road! It hurts NOBODY to drive that ALREADY EXSISTING ROAD! So many people cant see past their damn noses, and only care about thier hobbies or interests. Well Im here to tell everybody that its time to start repecting other peoples hobbies and interests, or maybe someday yours will be taken from you too! There is NOT ONE person on this board that doesnt regularly, or hasnt at least once driven a logging road to a trail head. Well, that's all the West Fork is, so get over it. Yes there are jersey barriers in front of the trail, but they are NOT an obsticle if you have the right rig! TB

[Tom]

BPJ, I think the question was more about the legality of driving the road (as opposed to whether or not someone supports a particular form of recreation). Are you saying it's legal to drive roads that have been jersey barriered? What if it wasn't legal? Just trying to understand what you are saying.

[Backpacker Joe]

Jersey barriers arent a legal way of saying that a road is closed! Signs are required posted. Jersey's are just a convienience before the signs are posted. TB

[Sore Feet]

There's nothing wrong with other people's hobbies. Yes it is a "road" in the sense that it can be driven by certain rigs, but my car can't get up there. And I'm sure because it became impassible to the average person's car (plus the washouts and lack of funding for repairs) is why the FS closed it to vehicles. I'm not saying that off-roaders are stupid and ignorant, but some content on some websites I've seen illustrate that some of the people that take their rigs up there may be having a lapse of poor judgement by driving over jersey barriers, boulders meant to be baracades, etc.

[Randy]

Interesting. Rocks in front of the barriers eh? Last year a couple of buddies of mine had no problem getting their trucks onto the road via the large campground to the west of the old road start. That's where they should have put the rocks as no one was going through the barriers anyhow. The road is fairly chaotic for the first mile or so, but after that it's fairly tame 'till very near its end. I won't be driving up it anytime soon, but it sure would be nice to have a lift up to the take off for North Cascade Mountain.

[Scrooge]

Anybody who thinks that the first mile of the W Fk Miller is a hiking trail is sitting at home in front of a map.

[-lol-]

[Sawyer]

Hey B. Joe, when you drive your rig around the barricade, you create an ugly, muddy mess. Surely the Forest Service has a reason to close the road -- at least find out why before taking the "elitist" attitude that since once there was a road, always there must be a road. If those with big rigs insisted on driving every abandoned road ever built, we'd have a horrible mess in the forest. There's nothing wrong with letting a few go back to primeval forest. There are thousands of miles of roads you can play on. You can take your argument another step in other situations. If they once put tramways up near Monte Cristo, then we should allow anyone with the technology to put up their own tram. If they once mined copper on Miners Ridge, they should always allow that. If they once allowed billions of people to the Enchantments, they should always have unrestricted access. If they once allowed campfires above 5000', they should always. If we have a legacy of cutting down fir bows for a bed at Snow Lake, then by god everybody should be able to do likewise. Gimme a break, B. Joe! Some hobbies cause more impact than others, and it's right to restrict some of them. Otherwise we'll have nothing left but quagmires for the rich folks with their powerful techno-toys. Why can't you go play in the many areas where this activity is appropriate? Why can't you allow other areas to return to the aboriginal state? I hope you'll "hear" what I'm trying to say...

[Gordy Comer]

The only reason the N. Fork Road/trail is open is due to the dudes that drove their 4 wheelers on it. This route may now become much more difficult as it fills in with brush. I'll bet someone figures out how to get around the counties' barriers, and it won't bother me. Thank you to those who repair a water bar or move branches off a trail.

[mb]

Some road closures appear arbitrary, so the 4-wheelers feel justified (even if they're not) in driving on arbitrary roads.

[Stefan]

Let's not forget people that we need roads to access our trails. A trail should remain a trail. A road should remain a road. One should not destroy the other.

[Backpacker Joe]

Thank you for that Stefan! Be prepared to defend yourself! Rationality is NOT the word of the day here! My point is that we all do and have used these roads. Keeping them open harms noone. Only the elitist mindset (arrogant selfeshness) insists on their closure. How about I push to close EVERY logging type road out there? How would you all like that? Probably wouldnt would you? Nobody NEEDS to drive those roads, really..... TB