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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore



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Niece of Alvy Moore
PostThu Jul 27, 2006 3:09 pm 
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I have seen those on TV.  It's exactly like reality.  Well except the TV log is peeled, has the right amount of moisture-to-dry ratio, is on a saw-horse, and is probably a nice fir, and the cutter is in a nice cotton t-shirt fresh from his bed & breakfast down the road, and the Reality log is a punky wet hemlock laying directly on a rock slab on a 32 degree slope with bad runout, with tight-as-a-drum side-bind, end-bind and top-bind all at once, with a 500 pound rootwad dangling from it and the cutter just hiked in 6 miles in the sleet and rain.

Other than that, those contests are exactly like reality  up.gif

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Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Ski
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PostThu Jul 27, 2006 3:23 pm 
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Quark wrote:
Chainsaws could have a place in Wilderness, but more for large scale projects than an average tour.

I'm only in favor of the chainsaws being used in certain cases, and on a limited basis. Same with helicopter lifts for new bridges and materials. I just think it's odd that there is a different set of rules for NFS and NPS.
I think tampering with the regulations to allow chainsaws is a Pandora's Box we'd be better off not opening.
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore



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Niece of Alvy Moore
PostThu Jul 27, 2006 3:26 pm 
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Wilderness laws are the same whether the land manager is FS or NPS.

The NPS, however, has access to more money so they have larger crew, more equipment, money for resources such as pack mules whereas the Wilderness under the agency of the FS does not have that luxury.

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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MtnGoat
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PostThu Jul 27, 2006 3:32 pm 
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tamper with them so a competent field tested crew boss can determine they are or aren't needed, and don't tie their hands from using the right tools. using a chainsaw in an avalanche zone isn't going to bring in the logging trucks or somethin

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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PostThu Jul 27, 2006 3:40 pm 
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It's not the logging trucks I would worry about. It's mountain bikes.
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MtnGoat
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PostThu Jul 27, 2006 3:43 pm 
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don't blame ya, those guys are a hazard going downhill and churn up trail tread something fierce

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PostThu Jul 27, 2006 3:49 pm 
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They don't have to be going downhill to be a hazard. I had a run-in with 3 of them on flat ground one afternoon who almost killed me up in ONP.
At any rate: I think the use of chainsaws in some cases are okay ( in NFS Wilderness Areas) , but I don't want to see the regulations which apply to them tampered with.
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore



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Niece of Alvy Moore
PostThu Jul 27, 2006 4:17 pm 
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MtnGoat wrote:
tamper with them so a competent field tested crew boss can determine they are or aren't needed,

Too vague and leaves it open to mishandling and various interpretations by too many different people.  You might have a competent field crew boss one year, or for five, but then the next one might not be so competent.  Best to keep it rigid and keep the power narrow; that way there's little question, less confusion.  Odd that what edges my opinion that way is this stupid office dress code business casual crap I have to constantly police.  Holy mother of god, let's just go back to the more rigid formal dress code and be done with it.

I think more of a problem than logout on trails are drainage issues, foot bridges, trail slough, and necessary re-routes that aren't done.

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Sandy McKean
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PostThu Jul 27, 2006 4:44 pm 
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.....a bit OT, but....

Quote:
I know!  Tix aren't available to the general public yet; only subscribers can get 'em right now.  I'm waiting, and have re-read the play recently in anticipation of this fine event!

I am a season subscriber to ACT (co-sponsors) so I had the opportunity to purchase the tickets months ago.  I already have them in my hot little hands in fact  biggrin.gif.

BTW, in case you didn't know, the Beckett Trust allowed the filming of ALL of Beckett's stage works (inclucing 'Waiting") a while back for the 1st time.  They were produced by the same Irish theater company that is coming to Seattle in November.  These DVD's are excellent (since Beckett was VERY particular) and can all be had from Netflix.
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yew
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non-technical
PostFri Jul 28, 2006 10:43 am 
chainsaws in Wilderness
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A lot of posts and views on this topic.  I'm surprised no one else posted it before.  Maybe they did way back?

A lot of good logical and informed posts to learn from.

Over the years, I've bumped into Glacier, Mt Rainier, North Cascades, Shenandoah and Rocky Mtn National Park trail crews while hiking in those parks and trail maintenance workers on the Appalachian Trail.  They can use chainsaws.  That never ruined my wilderness experience.

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"I aint jokin woman, I got to ramble...We gonna go walkin through the park every day." - Led Zeppelin
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Stefan
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PostFri Jul 28, 2006 10:48 am 
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I am in favor of chainsaws and should be up to the district manager to decide to use them or not.

I have always thought the backcountry horsemen who do fabulouso work should be allowed to carry chainsaws.

In addition, I have always thought that bicycles should be allowed too.  That way, the Wilderness, has "one more group" to add to trail maintenance with the cutting of dollars for maintenance.

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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore



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Niece of Alvy Moore
PostFri Jul 28, 2006 10:59 am 
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yew_betula wrote:
That never ruined my wilderness experience.

The term "my wilderness experience" doesn't really enter into my opinion of prefering non mechanization of trail work.  It's simply that I like with the idea of Wilderness, within reason.  My definition of "within reason" doesn't include the occasional log over a trail.

However, at this point, I wouldn't choose the use chainsaws in Wilderness as a battle to fight against.

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Allison
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Feckless Swooner
PostFri Jul 28, 2006 11:01 am 
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I would strongly oppose expanded use of chainsaws in Wilderness.
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Hiker Boy
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Hinking Fool
PostFri Jul 28, 2006 11:15 am 
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I don't have strong feelings one way or the other, however I was amazed at how fast a blowdown can be taken care of by a couple forest service workers with a Xcut.  I used to think it took a team of burly guys to take care of blowdowns but the last two years in a row I have seen a couple petite lady rangers cut blowdowns off the Lake Ann trail with an efficiency which was quite remarkable.

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Dante
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PostFri Jul 28, 2006 11:20 am 
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I saw mini-caterpillar/bulldozer tracks on the Wonderland Trail.

I've heard plenty of Forest Service blasting in the ALW, too.  I guess explosives save more work compared to picks and hammers than a chainsaw compared to a buck-saw.
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