[Quark]

Mr. Curtis is correct. Too much impact on that fragile place. Besides, Chikamin is ugly. I mean it, too. It's even uglier than the Peninsula. Nobody should ever go to Chikamin. Besides, there's no lake there anymore anyway, only those pesky ponds. The lake sorta bothered me, all that rippling and sloshing is quite distracting. And then later, with the moon reflecting from it into my eyes and all; well, I had had enough of that mess, so what I did was, I dug this channel and drained that puppy. Yup, I did. Don't think it was easy, either - I dug the channel through Lemah, and looped it around up toward Stuart, then ended up in Gold Basin. So that's where Chikamin is, at Gold Creek.

[Allison]

Yes, what she said! Seriously, please don't take a group of more than four or five to Iceberg, Glacier, or Chikamin. Or for that matter, ever say their names out loud again. I'd be a lot happier seeing our more traditional means of gathering outside--the camp-out with optional dayhikes!

[Backpacker Joe]

Well sorry guys (Da, I mean gals) that's probably where we'll be going. Dont worry, we wont hammer the place. We are not new here! Unless we do the Snowking trip, it's tally ho to Ice berg! Or something like that. TB

[Dave Weyrick]

As unlikely as it is to ever get a very large group to go to the same place at the same time, this group is predisposed to be able to pull it off with very little impact. I'm sure all would be willing to use only stoves, so no fire rings. Many are hammock users, and more could be converted, so large flat areas, which are easily trampled, need not be frequented. Much of our time could be spent out in our Curtis rafts exploring, picture taking, sunbathing, or even, if we must, fishing (I have an extra raft, as several do). Additionally, if a large group does develop, it could be split, each group starting at the other half's destination, spreading out impact and solving the car moving problems. That was the method a group of 10 used that I ran into on an Olympics hike last summer.

[Allison]

I still think it represents a very poor choice for a group outing. In fact, I can think of few places that would be a worse choice. There are so many reasons to pick practically anywhere else to take a bunch of people.

[Backpacker Joe]

What's a bunch Al? What is the dividing line people wise for you? How many would you take up there, or not take up there? TB

[Sore Feet]

I'm just curious here, but why is 5 to 10 people going to some place like Iceberg any worse than a day's quota of people going into the Enchantments (especially when these 5-10 people know what they are doing in terms of pack it in & out, minimal vegetation trampling, etc)?

[Randy]

Because Iceberg sees maybe, on average, 1 person a year so by default there's very little (if any) sign of trampling or impact from people. There's also no room to spread out, so a large group would be sleeping and walking on the same fragile areas over and over. Granted the Enchantments see far more people, so they might aquire more signs of impact in a given season, but the fact that Iceberg is "relatively" untouched right now is something that's worth keeping that way as there are few places in the ALW like it. Given the same group size the impact is amplified many times over at Iceberg. That said, a group that large staying for the day or just a night is probably not a big deal.

[Brian Curtis]

Iceberg is surrounded by sharp broken rocks. There is only one, small, fragile area to hang out. The Enchantments are made up of a lot of smoothed rock that can be used to hang out on and use is spread over a large area. Despite that, impacts in the Enchantments are great. That is why there is a quota. There are also safety considerations in bringing a large party in on steep, loose talus slopes. Sure, it can be done, but it doesn't sound fun.

[McPilchuck]

...a big grin from o'l McPil.

[Sore Feet]

[Tom]

Yeah, but that loose talus sounds scary. I'm bringing my "climbing" helmet.

[Backpacker Joe]

I have an extra (everything) pair of carbon fiber trekking poles for someone to use whilst navigation thoust rocks! Safety first my good men! TB

[Larry]

Hmmm...Toleak Point? Cape Johnson? Hidden Cove at Hoh Head? The Olympic wilderness beaches would sure be a nice choice for a group.

[Brian Curtis]