[Allison]

Discuss. Be specific.

[Backpacker Joe]

Well the funny thing is this; unless they (climbers) get helicoptered in there, they *are* hikers until the climb begins. Then they're hikers again until they get into their cars.... We hikers may not be climbers, but those climbers *are* hikers too. So let's have them pay their bloody fees like the rest of us aye!!! TB

[Sore Feet]

Gettin' mighty philisophical there BPJ.

[Backpacker Joe]

Da, sorry boss. TB:dizzy:

[Tom]

To me, a climber is a someone who generally climbs peaks or rock climbs. A hiker might have more varied interests (i.e. lake destinations, fishing). As BPJ alluded, most climbers are hikers, but not all hikers are climbers.

[Backpacker Joe]

There are those extreme guys doing big walls in the valley (Yosemite) that PAY someone to carry all their stuff to the wall. (Dont want to build up their leg muscles. To much weight) then they climb and off they go. They may not be hikers?!?!? Wierd! TB

[Alfred E. Neuman]

Um, duh. Climbing is focused on reaching the top of a peak. Hiking is more generic. What's the difference between a duck? One leg is both alike!

[#19]

[Backpacker Joe]

What about free climbing a route with not rope? You're still climbing, but there is no pro, and you are free solo. I suppose there are climbers that never hike. Like you mentioned gym rats and the like. Otherwise to climb something you must hike to get there! TB

[Allison]

Climbers are special, they neither hike nor have to pay fees!!

[Larry]

Well, of course, the definition has a certain 'gray area', which is that overlap discussed above - where does hiking end and climbing begin? My own meager brain has always considered 'climbing' as starting when you have to start using your hands for assistance in traveling up a mountain (or even up a ridge or a short steep section on a bushwhack). Seems like you could call it 'climbing' when the use of hands will keep you from falling and breaking something. So, it looks like hikers certainly have times when it could be considered 'climbing'. Heck, even a guy trying to get up a ladder to clean the gutters is 'climbing'. It's all such a matter of 'degrees' isn't it!

[Backpacker Joe]

I understand your logic, but there is scrambling that requires hands at times too. Hmm, I think Miss. Allison has created at topic that cannot be brought to a conclusion! Good for her! TB

[Stefan]

Climbing is when you use a rope, or an ice axe. Climbing is when you are reaching the apex of something. Climbing is class 3 or above. All else is hiking.

[Mike E.]

This conversation has been a real eye opener. I had no idea that anyone would pay someone else to carry their stuff to the base of a climb. Then I remembered a program on the Discover channel a while back, where a group of modern dancers had paid some big wall climbers to take them halfway up one of the big walls in Yosemite. Once there, they hung from about a hundred feet of rope and spent a couple of hours on a new dance form, "Vertical Ballet". The impression that I got was that they thought that they were VERY clever and at the cutting edge of their art. Any of you folks interested in trying this ? I wonder what they're calling it ?

[Backpacker Joe]

What was the name of that British Columbia guy (Peter something) that used to climb the big walls (and everything else too) free! I remember in the 80's seeing him 1000+ feet up using telephoto climbing away. He used to hang at Squaw Rocks alot. TB