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Allison
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PostThu Oct 19, 2006 4:34 pm 
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I'm not sure if it's appropriate to say this, but this thread was intended to be about whether or not a thread devoted to car break ins would be useful, not for people to post about car break ins.
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Quark
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PostThu Oct 19, 2006 4:38 pm 
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marylou wrote:
I'm not sure if it's kosher to say this, but this thread was intended to be about whether or not a thread devoted to car break ins would be useful, not for people to post about car break ins.

I'm offended by your use of the word "kosher."

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Allison
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PostThu Oct 19, 2006 4:40 pm 
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Quark wrote:

I'm offended by your use of the word "kosher."

Apologies, post edited.
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Tazz
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PostThu Oct 19, 2006 4:43 pm 
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maybe change the title? (someone want to pass that on to ML?)
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ActionBetty
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Im a dirty hippie!
PostThu Oct 19, 2006 5:18 pm 
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Tazz wrote:
maybe change the title? (someone want to pass that on to ML?)

rotf.gif

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"If you're not living good, you gotta travel wide"...Bob Marley
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Karen
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PostThu Oct 19, 2006 8:50 pm 
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ML, if the thread has drifted off topic it is obviously because there is a need for a thread about break-ins, theft and vandalism somewhere. Why is anyone dithering about where to put it? Can't you see for the forest for the trees? The need for this information is obvious. Please put it somewhere so those that wish to refer to it can make their decision on where to hike, given the number of incidents that folks are reporting here.

Whether or not the number of break-ins and such are increasing is a moot point -- some of us would like to know where these crimes are occuring, when they occurred and what happened. I choose to see the world without rose-colored glasses -- it's not Walt Disney out there and even though there is more crime in the city than in the wilderness doesn't mean it's not relevant to hikers. Like you, I have no intention of quitting hiking because my vehicle might get broken into but I'd at least like to lesson the odds and not park my car where break-ins are common. Break-ins are probably like death, sooner or later death will get all of us but I'd sure like to put it off.

We need to address this reality and reporting incidents of break-ins and such is part of that work. If (or when) I experience such a problem I intend to tell the tale -- right here.

Karen

PS Anyone remember that game of Chess in Bergman's "Seventh Seal?"

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stay together, learn the flowers, go light - from Turtle Island, Gary Snyder
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Allison
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PostThu Oct 19, 2006 8:56 pm 
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Quote:
ML, if the thread has drifted off topic it is obviously because there is a need for a thread about break-ins, theft and vandalism somewhere. Why is anyone dithering about where to put it? Can't you see for the forest for the trees? The need for this information is obvious. Please put it somewhere so those that wish to refer to it can make their decision on where to hike, given the number of incidents that folks are reporting here.

I agree with you Karen. The problem here is that now the horse is out of the barn, and it's been made clear to be (by Tom himself) that my "mother-henning" of the forum in any way is highly inappropriate and unwelcome. It's his forum, and that's what he says, so I respect that.  I do not know if suggestions of this nature fall into this category or not, so I'll err on the side of caution.

Having said that, and hoping not to get in trouble for airing it, I would love to see a thread devoted to this, hopefully stickied, and in the Trip Reports forum. I'd imagine that the Powers That Be may be amenable to such a thread, but  it's not my place.

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Quark
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PostThu Oct 19, 2006 9:30 pm 
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I glanced back at the thread, and many of the break-ins listed were from years ago - 1980's, 1999, etc. Not to say there aren't current reports posted too,  but there's not an overwhelming input for current break-ins.  I tend to agree with Damian that it's a downer - along with murder and death and gun threads.  But if folks want it, more power to 'em. It's not a bad idea, but it would be unwieldy to make it useful.

It would be more informative if, as Sabasboy mentioned, a type of click-and-update spreadsheet directly on this site could be created (if you can find someone who wants to volunteer that kind of time).  More likely post a link to an offsite spreadsheet - update it when an incident takes place.  Problem with that is, what if that person is on vacation and misses 4 incidents at Granite Mtn and gets blamed for not updating it - the owner of the spreadsheet should have thick skin.  May I present Dave Workman as a good candidate for this - crime stats and thick skin(joking Dave).

The spreadsheet scenario would take out the opportunity of chat & clutter.

Spreadsheet (sahasboy's idea), and someone's volunteered time.

If it's a spreadsheet rather than a long, unwieldy thread with noise (inevitable), and someone wanted to get information on an i-90 trail because no one expects a break-in there - they wouldn't have to weed through 15 pages and make tick marks next to a hand-written list of trails mentioned to see if there's a pattern.

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Dayhike Mike
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PostThu Oct 19, 2006 11:09 pm 
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If only trailheads had addresses...

It'd be cool to see a Google Maps mash-up, which plots reported break-ins in a database on a map of the state. As reports aged, they could fade from a bright red (last 30 days) to orange (30-60 days) to a muted yellow (60-90 days) to green (90-180 days) and eventually a blue color after 6 months of not being hit.

Then again, the thieves would probably use it for ideas and/or start hitting the cooled off sites figuring people would be down on their guards after 6 months of inactivity...

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"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
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Tom
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PostFri Oct 20, 2006 1:46 am 
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Anyone who wishes to create such a topic in any forum they wish is more than welcome to do so.  If unsure about something, there is always the PM button.
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Dave Workman
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PostFri Oct 20, 2006 7:45 am 
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Quark wrote:
I May I present Dave Workman as a good candidate for this - crime stats and thick skin(joking Dave).

Actually, Quark, it's my SKULL that's thick, creating a very small space for what substitutes as a brain  lol.gif  lol.gif

But, seriously folks..first, check out my suggestions on the "Crime creeping into..." thread about possible things that can be done to confound the bad guys.

As for setting up a grid or a crime stats thread, I don't know the first thing about actually putting together a grid that can be logged onto. My computer savvy doesn't go quite that far. It would have to be a form that each person can log onto and enter the "just the facts m'am" data, and I don't know how to set that up.

That said, here's all you need to have on such a "form" to make it useful to other NWHikers forum members:

Place of incident:
Approx Time and Date of incident:
Items taken:
Type of damage:  (i.e. smashed windows, broken trunk latch, etc)

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Now, to help the cops, here are a couple of other suggestions:

When you arrive at a trailhead, take note of the other cars parked there, time and date. You might even want to jot down some license plate ##s and types of vehicles (i.e. Subaru, Lic. # 123 ABC)

Carry a digital camera in your pack (a lot of you do, pictures on this forum don't lie!) so that if you return to the trailhead and find your car, or someone else's vandalized...SNAP PHOTOS. All angles, all around the vehicle, and if there's soft ground, snap photos of that, too, so you might get a good image of someone's shoe tread.

Write down license ##s of any other cars with damage

Jot down the time of day and date


This stuff helps the cops by narrowing down the time period of the incident. If they want to have a deputy in the area when the bad guys are most likely to hit, this info is invaluable.

Over the next couple of months, what I *can* do is chat with my pals in the KCSO and get some other tips from them to pass along, and I'd be willing to even help set up a little informational get-together someplace early next spring to jump start everybody's awareness.  But that's up to you.
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GlacierGlider
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PostFri Oct 20, 2006 7:50 am 
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I had a breakin at the Monte Cristo Trailhead...they stole my amp and sub woofers...of course now I have a key to the gate and just drive in...never had a break in at he Monte Cristo townsite...Gotta love those keys...I always see breakins up off hiway 2 though...

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"Those who go up the mountain must come down....except me"  AKA spylunker...."See you at the top"
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1k
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PostFri Oct 20, 2006 7:35 pm 
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[quote="Dave Workman"]
Quark wrote:
I May I present Dave Workman as a good candidate for this - crime stats and thick skin(joking Dave).


That said, here's all you need to have on such a "form" to make it useful to other NWHikers forum members:

Place of incident:
Approx Time and Date of incident:
Items taken:
Type of damage:  (i.e. smashed windows, broken trunk latch, etc)[/
quote]

Brevity is good. A spreadsheet is good.  Combine the two and something useful could be accomplished.   agree.gif

Perhaps rather than making any one person responsible for updates, the members of this forum could log entries of what they have seen as they return from trips.  Near real time data.  Trailheads could be added as different hikes are done and problems encountered.  Put it out there, invite people to update it, see if it gains any traction.

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Life is short, hike hard...
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Quark
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PostFri Oct 20, 2006 7:40 pm 
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You mean a link to someone's website with a spreadsheet anyone in the world can mess around with?

Or a fill-in form requiring login and someone to create the form, etc.  which would require someone to devote a lot of time and effort and maintenance?

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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1k
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PostSat Oct 21, 2006 10:40 am 
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Quark wrote:
You mean a link to someone's website with a spreadsheet anyone in the world can mess around with?

Or a fill-in form requiring login and someone to create the form, etc.  which would require someone to devote a lot of time and effort and maintenance?

I take it you are not real fond of the idea.

Had actually thought about both options.  The former is kind of like the Wikipedia model.  OK, so anyone could mess with it but anyone could correct it too.  And why would they want to mess with it?  Look, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work but at least it was tried.

I have no idea as to how much time would need to be devoted to the login option.   It is probably the better approach from a quality of data standpoint.  Could a link to a spreadsheet be created that was only visible/useable to registered members of this site?

I don't pretend to have answers but why not kick around some ideas?

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