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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore



Joined: 15 May 2003
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
PostMon Nov 13, 2006 10:02 pm 
magellan wrote:
quicksand.

Bob and I were fooling around with a bit of quicksand on Saturday.  I forget which washout. When I fool around with quicksand, I always think of the 1985 earthquake that flattened a lot of Mexico City - what did the damage was liquifaction of the soil - Mexico City is built on a swamp, apparently.  Bear with me here, this is not thread drift.

So when we were using our feet as minature vibrosis machines near the washout (see, we're back on thread)I thought of liquifaction how the now-exposed soil along the road will absorb more water than it did when it was buried under compacted road dirt and rip-rap on the banks, and cause the roadbed to continue failing.  It ain't exactly liquifaction, but there's a lot of newly loosened and disturbed soil that's been itching for decades to finally be on it's way once more to the ocean trenches where it wants to be.

I admit I'm excited on behalf of the dirt; but I mourn the loss of these roads.

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Justan
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Justan
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PostMon Nov 13, 2006 10:52 pm 
Quote:
Please, everyone; do not drive past Road Closed signs!!!

FWIW i didn't drive past a sign. It was a barricade and i went around.  Seriously, i got an okay from the FS guys.

But I do want to share a brief story about a neighbor I met while on my first outing. His name is Terry and he’s lived in Greenwater for over 30 years. He told me a story about being on FS-74 during a flood back in the 70s. He said he was at an area about 5 miles back. Was standing and observing, in awe, the rampaging White river and torrential rainfall. Said there was so much soil and glacial melt off that he could smell the glacier in the water. He was standing in one area and walked off. Very shortly after he walked off he felt the ground pulsing underneath him. And then, he witnessed about 50 yards of shoreline just melt into the churning water. He said that if he hadn’t moved a moment earlier he would be gone.

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-Justan Elk
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Mtn Dog
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Joined: 01 Aug 2004
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Mtn Dog
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PostTue Nov 14, 2006 5:44 am 
Tom:  The fine amount depends on the actual infraction.  The officer has the discretion of a lesser citation or the more expensive one, which is considered a form of negligence.

Quark:  Yes, the agency in charge is a bureacracy and they could do a better job of monitoring Road Closures and pulling the signs when appropriate.  I love the Motorcycles... sign; it's now required by state law but over half the groups using that sign don't post it properly.  But the agency is responsible for notifying the public of roadway hazards and can be held liable for not acting on conditions as they arise.

GeoHiker and Justan:  The Black on White ROAD CLOSED sign is the regulatory sign I speak of.  They are usually posted on large orange and white barricades but it takes the sign to mark the condition and it must be placed across the road (sawhorses are used too).  Contractors sometimes leave them on the side of the road facing perpendicular to traffic which leaves the road open and the sign just waiting to be picked up.  Often these signs are used where construction is going on.  Workers are only onsite during daytime hours but the road remains closed all day and night.

MtnGoat:  In a utopia you could hold each individual responsible for their actions but that's not reality.  When counties get sued by drunk drivers who wreck their car and kill their friend while doing 90 MPH because there must have been something wrong with the road design then there's no way an agency will leave hazardous conditions unmarked.  And all regulatory conditions are only as good as they are enforced.

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Footprints on the sands of time will never be made sitting down.
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Tazz
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Tazz
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PostTue Nov 14, 2006 10:27 am 
Carbon River road pics. 
very small wash -over
very small wash -over
trees litter the entire river bed.
trees litter the entire river bed.
slide before rangers station
slide before rangers station
This is the road 1.5-2 miles from rangers station
This is the road 1.5-2 miles from rangers station

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dicey
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dicey
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PostTue Nov 14, 2006 10:37 am 
GeoHiker wrote:


The only one I will admit to going around on a regular basis is the one on the Index road. 

ditto.gif

What is up with that one anyway? confused.gif

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I'm not always sure I like being older but being less stupid has advantages.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/32121172@N00/sets/
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!



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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
PostTue Nov 14, 2006 10:57 am 
Index road: I chickened out going around that one last spring.  chicken.gif If you can't "do the time" (or "pay the fine") then don't do the crime. embarassedlaugh.gif


The Carbon river road: It looks bad, real bad. But didn't I read recently that the park was/will be expanded by a few hundred acres to accommodate a new route for the road, away from the river? If so, does that mean that the long-term prognosis is good?

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“The jerking motion of a knee does not reflect the operation of a mind”  Slugman, January 24th 2020
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore



Joined: 15 May 2003
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
PostTue Nov 14, 2006 6:05 pm 
Wow, check out photo 9082 and 9070;  you can see how high the river came and scoured the soil and moss from the trunk of the trees.

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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kleet
meat tornado



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kleet
meat tornado
PostTue Nov 14, 2006 7:15 pm 
Those is some handsome photos!

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A fuxk, why do I not give one?
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andrew e
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PostTue Nov 14, 2006 9:58 pm 
Went to look at the Index-Galena road washout today. No one's going to be driving around that one anytime soon. Washout is about 6.5 miles up, but road is closed at about 5.5, walked the rest of it to the washout. As you can see in the pics the river is flowing down at least 200 yards of the road in the distance. Yikes.

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Magellan
Brutally Handsome



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Magellan
Brutally Handsome
PostTue Nov 14, 2006 10:54 pm 
Tazz and Andrew, thanks for those pix... gag.gif

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Canuck
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Canuck
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PostWed Nov 15, 2006 10:40 am 
I apologize if this was already posted, I'm short on time and didn't search, but check out if you haven't already the slideshow put together by MRNP folks...

Mt. Rainier damage

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Dogpatch
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Dogpatch
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PostWed Nov 15, 2006 10:52 am 
andrew e wrote:
Went to look at the Index-Galena road washout today.

Any news on the bridge across the Skykomish to Galena?

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MCaver
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MCaver
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PostWed Nov 15, 2006 11:10 am 
Here's a photo from Mount Rainier Climbing at the Grove as well. The normally 3.5' high interpretive sign is now neck deep in silt.


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MCaver
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PostWed Nov 15, 2006 11:12 am 
Andrew E, thanks for the Index-Galena photos. I was up there on Sunday but stopped at the closure. It looked to me like some of the cabins beside the river in that area were completely gone. One lot just had a deck left right on the new riverbank. There was a lot of flood damage and silt in Index as well, and all the sandbags were still up.

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MCaver
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MCaver
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PostWed Nov 15, 2006 11:56 am 
Looks like Olympic NP has estimated $3 million in damages.

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