Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:50 pm Where do you go when Avy danger is high?
I know there are places to go when avalanche danger is too high to go to avalanche-prone areas, but I'm having trouble finding such places, like a list or something. For example, for tonight and tomorrow, avy danger is listed as moderate to considerable in the Stevens pass area, and that's too high for me. I wanted to go to Skyline lake and Skyline ridge, but the maps make the area look a bit sketchy in avy conditions, with lots of open, steep-ish slopes. So, where can I find a list of places just not prone to avalanches due to the terrain? Or can some members here use this thread to compile such a list? I've looked at that winter summits website, and there is some useful info there, but also lots that is suspect IMO, and it only deals with summits, which seems like the kind of areas to be avoided during moderate to high avy danger.
-------------- You must have really hated that moose - Dudley Moore, Arthur
Hex Mountain near Cle Elem is a relatively low avy snowshoe. It sticks to the ridge. It's been a couple years since I've been there. Though I have heard that the trailhead is difficult to get to these days due to new development? Does anyone know about this?
-------------- And the end of all our searching shall be to return to the place where we started and know it for the first time.
- T.S. Eliot
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 8809 | TRs | Pics Location: Long Ago and Far Away
Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:30 pm
Most places East of Snowcrummy Pass are pretty safe. There is on chute on Ambilliswhichcan be avoided if you do no do the loop. The CC trails at Hyak are closed if dangerous and you would notice that if you go up the public corridor. The Iron horse is completely safe as is Price Creek. All at Swauk Pass is pretty safe but the area near the top of Diamond Head. When you could get to Paradise all but Pan Point and the side of Alta Vista were OK.
-------------- We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard
-JFK
The Nordic Pass Trail is safe. Some route finding may be necessary if no one has been up in a while but we were able to follow the diamonds this weekend.
I've believed for years that Source Lake was one of the most hazardous places a person could snowshoe. Until this weekend. We found a way to go that kept us off the avalanche chutes and avoided the Snow Lake trail entirely. We did have some "interesting" stream crossings but essentially there's a small ridge between the Snow Lake trail side of the valley and the Alpental Side. If you can find your way to that ridge you're mostly in trees and when you come out you're right at the edge of the lake facing the avalance bowl with flawless views of Chair Peak, Pineapple Pass, etc.
We didn't venture beyond the lake -- we watched some skiers and snowshoers come down from the ridge between the Tooth/Chair but we wouldn't have put ourselves there. The snow felt pretty stable, albeit fresh but we're conservative. There have been fatalities at Source Lake and I've seen other places in the mountains (in the summer) where you can see where an avalanche was so powerful it ran up the OTHER side of the valley (I am not referring to Source Lake, just a general comment).
Snow is an ever-changing commodity, though. One day it's relatively safe, the next day could be a different story. In general we stick to routes where we seldom venture across an open bowl -- there's reasons there aren't any trees growing there.
Other places to consider .... trails/old roads that go up to Mount Washington or Dirty Harry's or even the Granite Lakes Road. Think those are pretty safe in terms of avalanches.
Just thought of another one: Commonwealth Basin. Aboslutely gorgeous in the snow. No avvy danger at all unless you leave the basin and head toward Red Pass which you wouldn't do since you appear to be in your right mind.
Karen
-------------- stay together, learn the flowers, go light - from Turtle Island, Gary Snyder
Excellent. (rubs fingers together) Keep 'em coming , folks. Then, when somebody in the future asks the same question, just link them to this thread, and they can pick and choose their trip.
-------------- You must have really hated that moose - Dudley Moore, Arthur
Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 2411 | TRs | Pics Location: Between a rock and a hard place.
Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:01 pm
Kelcema Lake is safe, it's a road trip most of the way in. The final short off road bit is pretty flat and in the trees too. There's also Heather Lake. Travelling around the backside of the lake would be risky but the route up to the lake itself is all in the trees. If there's enough snow you could walk/ski up Hwy410 from the closure, we did last year, but there isn't much to see and alot of snowmobiles. Ollalie lake via the Pratt lake trailhead. Talapus lake via Ollalie, or the Talapus trailhead if they get the road fixed.
We gave Sun Top a shot yesterday, most of the way up that one is safe. The "Snowshoes in Washington" book mentions avalanche danger on the final bit to the top of the lookout, but as far as we went it was safe. Should be safe up to the good views.
Joined: 26 Feb 2005 Posts: 3515 | TRs | Pics Location: Off the grid
Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:36 pm
Opus wrote:
Kelcema Lake is safe, it's a road trip most of the way in. The final short off road bit is pretty flat and in the trees too.
Here's a picture of the Deer Creek road about 2 miles from Kelcema Lk on August 15 2002. It's hard to see in the picture, but there's a good 20 or more ft. of snow and debris. I filled up my cooler with snow on a 90 degree day. That must have been one big honking slide that came down that year.
I've seen that kind of damage on many of the roads off the Mtn Loop, so being on a road is not always safe especially if it's been logged in the last 20 years.
Slug, I've snowshoed Skyline many times and have never seen it slide on the open slope above the highway/cabins, but that's not to say it won't. Any slope under the right conditions can slide. If you stick to the road on the way up you should be safe under anything but extreme conditions.
There are a number of slide areas once you venture away from the lake and north of the ridge. I would go no where near Skyline Peak unless the snow is stable and anything on the south side of the rock gardens is death waiting to happen.
-------------- If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do. Warren Miller
Even the most rudimentary free avy clinics help you to start looking for avy terrain. I'd imagine you have had one, but if not, it might be a really valuable experience.
Also Dan Nelson's book gives guidelines as to what places are generally safer.
"Considerable" avy danger is just that as well, you're already on the right track there. You can get out in those conditions, but it's a lot more difficult to stay safe. Me, I generally go lift skiing when it's considerable.
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 516 | TRs | Pics Location: In The Shade
Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:07 pm
Down South there's Sand Lake at the top of White Pass on the PCT, and Mowich Lake, MNRP. Yeah what ML said, check out Dan Nelson's book "Snowshoue Routes of Washington" some good info.
I have that book, and I like it except for the worthless maps. One of the things it could do a bit better as well, IMO, is to give a rundown on the avalanche paths involved in each trip. I get the feeling that authors (in general) are afraid to talk too much about avy dangers, because if they make someplace sound safe, and an avalanche happens, they might be sued. Just a guess.
A couple things I like about snowshoeing at Rainier is that they give you an avalanche map showing avy paths to avoid, and they have rangers out tooling around checking conditions. You get what you pay for.
I am leery of taking an avalanche course and then using the info gained to make life-or-death decisions. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
I wanted to go to the avy presentation at REI a couple of weeks ago, but was stuck late at work that night. I need to get to one before they are done for the year. It will be a while, however, before I put my life on the line based on what I learned. Too many newspaper stories about avalanche deaths contain the phrase "experienced backcountry....(snowshoer, skier, whatever)". But I must start somewhere, and as ML said above, it will help me to pick out the safest areas.
-------------- You must have really hated that moose - Dudley Moore, Arthur
Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 12260 | TRs | Pics Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:51 pm
Slugman wrote:
I am leery of taking an avalanche course and then using the info gained to make life-or-death decisions. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
That's cause you're a smart man, in my opinion. I know a little here and there, but without practical experience and hanging with folks who are better than me to bounce my thoughts off of, I don't feel comfy, either. A person can read all the books they want to, and take all the courses they want to - but that doesn't make that person an expert. You have to get out there and practice knowledge; otherwise, you're simply a person who took a course, in my opinion.
Maybe I'm being overly-cautious, but I get claustrophobia, and I can't think of a worse way to go than being buried under snow (or drowning) - even thinking of being partially buried scares the hell out of me. I have trouble breathing just thinking about it.
I had a freind fresh from Florida, once, who took a course when he moved here and said, "Hey, lets go snowshoeing." Not knowing a damn thing about avalanches myself, I wasn't comfortable with his course knowledge and declined.
I'd rather go with someone who knows more than me so I can use that person's knowledge with what I learned, or go where I know it's safe, if with someone of equal or less experience than me.
I really enjoyed the Brill mini-class at REI; it gave me enough information to know how little I know and how much there is to learn. His classroom sessions begin on the 17th or so, this month.
-------------- "The next couple of miles smelt like burnt turkey and kept reminding me of thanksgivings with my ex-wife. "
chris-mbhc, NWHiker's Bulwer-Lytton contestant for 2011
Joined: 26 Feb 2005 Posts: 3515 | TRs | Pics Location: Off the grid
Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:05 am
Slugman wrote:
I am leery of taking an avalanche course and then using the info gained to make life-or-death decisions. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
Taking a class or reading a book won't make you an expert, but it will give you some working knowledge that will be helpful. Understanding snow structure and how weather affects the snow goes a long way in predicting slides.
Get out and go there are plenty of safe places to snowshoe with little or zero danger. The experienced people you see dieing often times push the envelope to the edge. We've all done something that when we look back say "what was I thinking" Sometimes it's just dumb luck.
Common sense and awareness of your surroundings will keep you out of most trouble. You've done enough summer hiking to recognize where slides occur. Use that knowledge and you should do fine.
-------------- If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do. Warren Miller
I know there are places to go when avalanche danger is too high to go to avalanche-prone areas, but I'm having trouble finding such places, like a list or something. For example, for tonight and tomorrow, avy danger is listed as moderate to considerable in the Stevens pass area, and that's too high for me. I wanted to go to Skyline lake and Skyline ridge, but the maps make the area look a bit sketchy in avy conditions, with lots of open, steep-ish slopes. So, where can I find a list of places just not prone to avalanches due to the terrain? Or can some members here use this thread to compile such a list? I've looked at that winter summits website, and there is some useful info there, but also lots that is suspect IMO, and it only deals with summits, which seems like the kind of areas to be avoided during moderate to high avy danger.
Have you taken an avy course?
Skyline Lake is a place I'll go to specifically when it's high danger (high danger on wind-loaded aspects, and wind was blowing from SW).
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all but Pan Point and the side of Alta Vista were OK.
Then, when somebody in the future asks the same question, just link them to this thread, and they can pick and choose their trip. 
