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DIYSteve
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PostMon Nov 13, 2017 8:52 am 
trestle wrote:
Watch the Rams or the Eagles or I hate to say it, the Patriots, to see a modern offense that regularly confuses the defense.
Again, all 3 of those teams have superior OLs, which is the starting place for an effective play action offense. Deception by the offense starts with having a credible running game threat. I know you don't want to hear that, but that's how it works. Seahawk's OL is the single weak link in the offense. (Google >Seahawks offensive line disaster< and you'll see that experts share this view.) Super Bowls are won by teams with strong OLs. (See, e.g., 2013-14 Seahawks OL anchored by Max Unger and Russell Okung.) I cannot think of any exceptions to that rule. Also, motion and resets are often (for some teams mostly) primarily about reading defenses, e.g., putting a man in motion is the best way to determine whether what coverage the D is playing. Hawks score points "when they need to" because the O game plan never works so late in the game RW abandons the offensive scheme and makes spectacular broken plays via scrambling. That is not a sustainable plan. All the trickery and scrambling in the world will never ever make up for a weak OL.

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y



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PostMon Nov 13, 2017 12:52 pm 
DIYSteve wrote:
trestle wrote:
Watch the Rams or the Eagles or I hate to say it, the Patriots, to see a modern offense that regularly confuses the defense.
Again, all 3 of those teams have superior OLs, which is the starting place for an effective play action offense. Deception by the offense starts with having a credible running game threat. I know you don't want to hear that, but that's how it works. Seahawk's OL is the single weak link in the offense. (Google >Seahawks offensive line disaster< and you'll see that experts share this view.) Super Bowls are won by teams with strong OLs. (See, e.g., 2013-14 Seahawks OL anchored by Max Unger and Russell Okung.) I cannot think of any exceptions to that rule. Also, motion and resets are often (for some teams mostly) primarily about reading defenses, e.g., putting a man in motion is the best way to determine whether what coverage the D is playing. Hawks score points "when they need to" because the O game plan never works so late in the game RW abandons the offensive scheme and makes spectacular broken plays via scrambling. That is not a sustainable plan. All the trickery and scrambling in the world will never ever make up for a weak OL.
I will have to agree with trestle on this one. Steve must not be watching the games, just clicking the internet doesnt give you the whole story. Hawks rarely have a trick or fancy play. You can just about call every play of the first three quarters before they go into panic mode at the end. There is no confusion because the defense is predicting. No matter how great your O line, if the defense knows your play they are probably going to squash it.

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trestle
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PostMon Nov 13, 2017 2:09 pm 
Actually they don't have superior lines. They overcome their opponents through scheme, alignments, and play-calling. The Seahawks don't.

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trestle
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PostMon Nov 13, 2017 2:14 pm 
DIYSteve wrote:
Deception by the offense starts with having a credible running game threat.
Sorry but this far too simplistic for NFL football. Deception begins the minute you cross the lines and take the field. I guarantee you the Patriots aren't waiting around for a credible running game threat, they start tricking you the minute they break the huddle, if they even huddle. And motion is a huge part of deception and yes, of course it uncovers the defensive scheme for the play. The Hawks should try it more often because right now, they fool no one, can't execute basic plays, and can't adjust. At this point of the season, all of those are on the coaches. They break down at the end because they fool no one and the defense doesn't have to adjust to anything other than Russell's spin moves. The OL of Unger and Okung was not exactly dominant. But of course Percy running in motion didn't change a thing in the Super Bowl.

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PostSat Nov 18, 2017 11:39 am 
Not looking good for the aging Legion of Boom. Reports are Kam is likely done for the year as well.

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PostSat Nov 18, 2017 12:54 pm 
Got tickets and going with my boy... but I am worried as well. The offense is really gonna have to show up for this one. I sure hope Brown starts at LT but is questionable right now (the Atlanta R Defensive end had a field day at Dallas last week). At least the Hawks have McDougal who has done well and apparently is capable of playing strong safety as well as free. The passing attack for Atlanta is so good, but Ryan and the boys have been spotty, so maybe they will lay an egg. As mentioned previously on this thread, the Hawks need to find the killer instinct on Defense and play excellent on offense or else forget it.

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PostSat Nov 18, 2017 2:03 pm 
Chancellor, Avril, Sherman all out. Thomas questionable (apparently he'll be playing, the question is how well). Not looking good. frown.gif

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PostSat Nov 18, 2017 2:07 pm 
end of the era for the LOB. sherman will never be the same (see: bryant, kobe). cam's neck is career threatening (see: sharpe, sterling)

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PostSat Nov 18, 2017 8:56 pm 
I think at least one of the two (Cliff/Kam) will never play another down for the Hawks. I tend to lean with Avril but who knows. Sherman time will tell. For a pure speed guy its' really bad. Sherman isn't a speed guy so with his smarts/experience he still could be a pretty decent corner in the league when he comes back. Time will tell. In the mean time just quit pretending you can run the ball. Wilson will need to carry the team and they will go as far as he can take them. If they go far this year than that really cements the fact that Wilson is an elite quarterback.

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DIYSteve
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PostSun Nov 19, 2017 6:11 pm 
trestle wrote:
Sorry but this far too simplistic for NFL football. Deception begins the minute you cross the lines and take the field. I guarantee you the Patriots aren't waiting around for a credible running game threat, they start tricking you the minute they break the huddle, if they even huddle. And motion is a huge part of deception and yes, of course it uncovers the defensive scheme for the play. The Hawks should try it more often because right now, they fool no one, can't execute basic plays, and can't adjust. At this point of the season, all of those are on the coaches. They break down at the end because they fool no one and the defense doesn't have to adjust to anything other than Russell's spin moves.
Sorry but this far too simplistic for NFL football.

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Chief Joseph
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PostMon Nov 20, 2017 2:18 pm 
The 'Hawks are likely toast this year, will be lucky just to make the playoffs. But at least they can blame it on the injuries and a positive is new players will gain some valuable playing time.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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PostMon Nov 20, 2017 3:08 pm 
DIYSteve wrote:
Sorry but this far too simplistic for NFL football.
Now you're just arguing. clown.gif Making the defense guess and take a half-step in the wrong direction is one of the keys to offensive coordinating, particularly when you suffer a talent deficiency in a notable area. It's not rocket science.

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Chief Joseph
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PostMon Nov 20, 2017 3:16 pm 
Anyone who still thinks that the Hawks don't need a different offensive coordinator probably thinks OJ is not guilty. clown.gif

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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PostTue Nov 21, 2017 12:45 pm 
So who was the 'genius' who decided it was a good idea to try a fake field goal with 4 seconds left in the half? Answer: the guy who will likely <should> be sent packing at seasons end. Plus Carroll continues to show poor judgement in when to throw the challenge flag. Pete is a great motivator and judge of talent, but as a Field General he is severely lacking imo.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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PostTue Nov 21, 2017 8:25 pm 
I think the special teams and Pete Carroll came up with that ill advised play....Boy, what a disappointing loss; the crowd was deafening loud and it felt like the Hawks would be buoyed by the emotion and win but like the Washington game, fell short. All sorts of mistakes again too. Its been a tough November to be a Seahawks fan.... frown.gif

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