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Ski
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PostSat Nov 17, 2018 9:05 pm 
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I previously posted about this on July 20, 2018 HERE.
While I am certain that the Hon. Bob Newhouse (R Washington 4th Congressional District) will no doubt be citing this as one of his great achievements to his constituents, to anyone capable of critical or rational thought it serves only to prove that Mr. Newhouse is every bit as much a nutball as his predecessor "Doc" Hastings.
As Randy points out, the language in the bill sets it up for litigation and being tossed out in court, just as all of Eyman's ill-conceived schemes were.

The only ones who will benefit from this Quixotic effort to chip away at the ESA will be the lawyers who take it up before a higher court.

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Sky Hiker
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PostSun Nov 18, 2018 7:39 am 
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Something needed to be done weather you agree with the language in the bill or not. When you have groups outside of the area affected only looking to profit it's not right.
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treeswarper
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PostSun Nov 18, 2018 8:02 am 
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Sky Hiker wrote:
Something needed to be done weather you agree with the language in the bill or not. When you have groups outside of the area affected only looking to profit it's not right.

Although I am getting tired of the Something Needs To Be Done, I agree with your statement.
The wolves don't affect the people who don't live where the wolves are.  It's too easy to dismiss the effects of the packs.  As for wolf tourism, the wolfy area of the state would already have a thriving tourist "industry" except for the fact that it is not an easy drive from Puget Sound.  There's a pass that closes in the winter, and another pass or two to drive over.

I wonder if the moose population will plummet?  Since returning to live here, I have heard of more moose than when I previously lived here.  I've seen the tracks and neighbors saw one wandering up our street!  And yes, I am aware the moose can be dangerous, but they sure are tasty.  Unfortunately, wolves like to eat them too, although the slow elk are easier to kill.  Slow Elk is another term for cows.

Wish I could've printed the big article on the calf killing.  Not sure if the new printer has a scan feature or if I can find the newspaper.  Oh well.

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Ski
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PostSun Nov 18, 2018 10:19 am 
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Sky Hiker wrote:
Something needed to be done weather you agree with the language in the bill or not.

If "something being done" means drafting and passing a piece of legislation that is almost certainly destined to be litigated and ultimately tossed out (as were Eyman's ill-conceived initiatives), at the cost of tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars, and in the end accomplishing absolutely nothing other than providing employment security for attorneys, then I hope that kind of "something being done" works for you.

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Bedivere
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 2:23 pm 
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If "something needs to be done" then do something that will actually have an effect on the thing that needs addressing.

If your house is on fire, running around flailing your arms and shouting "do something!" then throwing a bucket of water into the street will not stop your house from burning down.

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Sky Hiker
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 3:20 pm 
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So the question is who is doing the stuff that needs to be done? State, fish and game, Fed's, environmental groups?
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Ski
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Both USFWS and WDFW are actively engaged in the wolf "management" programs. The "environmental" groups don't really do a hell of a lot other than raising hell and filing lawsuits and collecting donations from their deluded constituent base.

In the meantime, some members of the United States Congress are hellbent on doing anything they can to chip away at the ESA, like Congressman Newhouse's whacky bill mentioned above.

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treeswarper
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PostSun Nov 25, 2018 10:46 am 
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Nah, no threat to people..

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/nov/24/wolf-steals-deer-from-stevens-county-hunter/

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Sky Hiker
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PostSun Nov 25, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Ski wrote:
In the meantime, some members of the United States Congress are hellbent on doing anything they can to chip away at the ESA, like Congressman Newhouse's whacky bill mentioned above.

I don't think I would call it a wacky bill. I believe its an effort for something to be done with regards to controlling the over population of wolves so that the state can control them as it should be. When you have states way over populated with wolves and nothing can be done because the enviro groups challenge anything to control the population. I believe the decision by that one judge where wolves cannot be delisted in one area until full recovery across all the states is absurd. I can't say I agree with the part of the bill saying state controlled wolf population cannot be challenged in court. But it is a way to keep some of these enviro groups challenging everything with regards to anything about the wolves. Wolves are pretty much their cash cow.
Now if the bill was pointed at every species on ESA then I might disagree. Some areas need control over the grizzly bears population also but that is another cash cow for the enviros.
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Ski
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PostSun Nov 25, 2018 6:40 pm 
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^ The wolf is listed at the State level here in Washington. What would be accomplished here by delisting it at the federal level?

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Sky Hiker
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PostSun Nov 25, 2018 7:49 pm 
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The bill was also sponsored by congressmen in minnesota and Michigan where the population is out of control.
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RandyHiker
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PostSun Nov 25, 2018 10:30 pm 
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Sky Hiker wrote:
The bill was also sponsored by congressmen in minnesota and Michigan where the population is out of control.

What's your source on the "out of control" determination?

Not so much the MN or MI DNR on this

http://news.dnr.state.mn.us/2018/09/24/minnesotas-wolf-population-remains-stable-3/

https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-86469-470898--,00.html

They seem to think the population is "stable"
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Ski
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PostSun Nov 25, 2018 11:21 pm 
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Well... I'm certainly no wolf reintroduction proponent, but I have to wonder by what metric you claim wolves to be "out of control".
If you asked cattle ranchers in Stevens County, I would guess they would say they're "out of control", because they cannot be "controlled". Not on public lands, not on private lands.

How does delisting them effectively keep them under "control"?

Other than by their extermination?

I'm all ears.

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Sky Hiker
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PostMon Nov 26, 2018 5:02 am 
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https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/04/27/endangered-wolf-control

So in your thinking delisting them would lead to their extermination? Why would that be the case, when state has come up with a wolf plan? I am all ears.
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PostMon Nov 26, 2018 5:38 am 
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I believe that the wolf population should be controlled at the State level. Like other animals once the population has achieved it State dictated population objective. Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin have management plans and that is where they should be managed. The environmental groups lead you to believe they have the wolves best interest in mind but that is a preconceived misconception.
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