Forum Index > Stewardship > Wolves need our help NOW!
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
RandyHiker
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 5880 | TRs
Location: Mobile
RandyHiker
  Top

Snarky Member
PostMon Nov 26, 2018 4:25 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost wrote:
Sky hiker don't get baited by them as data and articles can be manipulated to satisfy their side. It's not worth your time or effort.

There is considerable social science research that shows that for most people exposure to data that contradicts their already held beliefs results in denial and doubling down on their already held beliefs.   It is rare individuals that are willing to reconsider their beliefs when observations contradict their beliefs. 

https://www.brainpickings.org/2015/05/11/richard-feynman-science-religion/
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 8657 | TRs
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
  Top

Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostMon Nov 26, 2018 5:39 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost wrote:
Sky hiker don't get baited by them as data and articles can be manipulated to satisfy their side. It's not worth your time or effort.

Huh?  I just googled wolf population for each state, and that's what came up.  No manipulation, no "Fake News".


If it were up to me, I'd make it legal to shoot the critters the minute they threatened people and people's animals.  But I refuse to "manipulate" facts.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
RandyHiker
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 5880 | TRs
Location: Mobile
RandyHiker
  Top

Snarky Member
PostMon Nov 26, 2018 5:57 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper wrote:
I'd make it legal to shoot the critters

Wolves aint critters -- in my book they are varmints -- critters are creatures like dogs, cats, cows, sheep, etc -- generally beneficial animals.   Varmints are generally destructive animals.   

Some animals can be both -- e.g. Deer to most city folks are critters -- but they are varmints to when they come and crop your garden to the ground.

https://activerain.com/blogsview/2393237/the-difference-between-critters-and-varmints
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 9554 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostMon Nov 26, 2018 7:48 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Deer in the north end of Tacoma are a damned nuisance. The City should declare open season on them.  rant.gif

The wolf population in Washington State increased far more and faster than the experts at WDFW and USFWS ever anticipated. The "why" part of that is open to speculation and debate, but the "why" at this point isn't really relevant.

The commonly held belief is that the population will increase  until it exceeds its own carrying capacity, at which point it should (if the "ologists" are correct) stabilize.

It's quite possible that what's happening in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan is that the wolf population has actually exceeded its carrying capacity, bringing about an inevitable period where wolves will seek any available prey: domestic dogs and cats, horses, llamas, sheep, cattle. I don't understand how any reasonable person would not foresee that outcome.

The theory touted by the experts is that behavior can be altered by the elimination of select pack members, although (at least in Washington State) that has so far proven not to be the case. (see Smackout Pack, see OTP Pack, see Profanity Pack.)

The problem is really not so much the wolves as it is the so-called "environmental" groups that use the courts to circumvent established guidelines with which they were or had the opportunity to be part of in creating.

It's not the apex predator you should view as the problem - it's the vultures who use the wolf as a means to support their activities and pay their salaries.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 225 | TRs

timberghost
  Top

Member
PostTue Nov 27, 2018 4:59 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
What do you think is the motivation for some of these groups to back the re establishment of wolves across the U.S.? Money, a love for the animal, etc.? When you take a group like earth justice that has grown to over 300 employees you wonder.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
RandyHiker
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 5880 | TRs
Location: Mobile
RandyHiker
  Top

Snarky Member
PostTue Nov 27, 2018 6:23 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Those pesky environmentalists want the ecosystem to be structured as close as possible to it's pre-columbian pattern.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_reintroduction

Yep some environmental advocates make this their life's work and manage to support their families using donations from other environmental advocates.

Isn't that how advocacy and lobbying work in the modern era?

We have the finest government that money can buy -- almost 'cause if that was really the case, Exxon, ADM, Monsanto, etc would make every law.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 9554 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostTue Nov 27, 2018 7:37 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost wrote:
What do you think is the motivation for some of these groups to back the re establishment of wolves across the U.S.?

Because the wolf has proven to be the single biggest money-maker for groups like Defenders of Wildlife, Center for Biological Diversity, etc., and they've established a de facto industry collecting donations from their well-meaning members and suing the government  and collecting enormous payouts under the Equal Access to Justice Act.

Randy uses the same tired argument about Montsano and Exxon every time this comes up - it's just a goddam smoke screen.

There was a lengthy thread on this here years ago - started by treeswarper - but unfortunately I am not able to find it either with the search function or with Google. The article cited in the first post was a series of articles published in the Sacramento Bee about 15 years ago that went into great detail about the money collected by these groups, their methods used in fundraising, and the little games they play to avoid paying taxes and make it look like the money they collect in donations is going to a worthy cause while they're funneling as much as they can into their own pockets.

But hey, feel free to drink the Kool-Aid if you so choose - there are many members here who apparently slurp it up with great relish.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 225 | TRs

timberghost
  Top

Member
PostTue Nov 27, 2018 8:21 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Well I heard that some of the environment groups mission is to end all hunting. Using the wolves to limit the game animals population would be a way of doing this. When it came to the point where if they won their lawsuit against the government. Then were financially compensated was the straw that broke the camel's back. Now the tax payers are footing the bill.
This past weekend wolf tracks were found up the Chiwawa and Swakane areas.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
RandyHiker
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 5880 | TRs
Location: Mobile
RandyHiker
  Top

Snarky Member
PostTue Nov 27, 2018 9:22 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost wrote:
Well I heard that some of the environment groups mission is to end all hunting.

We'll I'm sure that is PETA's position -- Do you have any data showing more mainstream support for such nonsense?  Or is this like the "Obama is coming to get your guns" BS used to drive gun sales and NRA membership?
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 9554 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostTue Nov 27, 2018 10:58 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost wrote:
Well I heard that some of the environment groups mission is to end all hunting.

I'd tend to agree with Randy on that one - sounds like somebody's yankin' your chain there.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sky Hiker
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 830 | TRs
Location: outside
Sky Hiker
  Top

Member
PostWed Nov 28, 2018 5:47 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost wrote:
Well I heard that some of the environment groups mission is to end all hunting

Of coarse that's their end goal they would love to see no hunting at all. Groups like Humane Society, PETA, Born Free, Center for Biological Diversity, Defenders of Wildlife, ASPCA, Western Environmental Law Center, In defense of Animals, even Sierra Club would love to see nothing more than an end to hunting. If you don't think so your fooling yourself. Why wouldn't they want this but to keep getting rich off of lawsuit after lawsuit.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 225 | TRs

timberghost
  Top

Member
PostTue Dec 04, 2018 11:45 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
https://elknetwork.com/environmentalist-group-files-suit-wants-more-wolves-nationwide/
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 9554 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostTue Dec 04, 2018 9:13 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation wrote:
The Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) wants more wolves all across the United States so it followed through on a threat to file suit against the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Center for Biological Diversity must be running low on money, so it's time for them to file another lawsuit.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 225 | TRs

timberghost
  Top

Member
PostWed Dec 05, 2018 6:08 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Of coarse this is one guys perspective but he seems to have some knowledge with wolves.
https://vimeo.com/302332804
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 9554 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostWed Dec 05, 2018 11:07 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Wednesday December 05, 2018 09:05 PST

WDFW WILDLIFE PROGRAM

Gray Wolf Update


A new update on wolf activities is available on the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife’s website HERE

WDFW", in its Wolf Update of 12/05/18 wrote:
This report provides information about wolf conservation and management activities undertaken by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) from November 1-30, 2018.

Statewide Wolf Capture, Survey, and Management

Kittitas County

Permit grazing for cattle and sheep has ended for the season in the Teanaway pack’s known territory.
•No wolf/livestock incidents were reported or suspected in November.
•A Radio-Activated-Guard (RAG) box has been placed at a location on the eastern edge of the pack’s territory as a precaution to protect cattle on private land.

Region 2 – Okanogan County only
•Range riders have completed their work for this grazing season.
•No wolf/livestock incidents were reported or suspected during November.

WDFW biologists placed remote cameras and surveyed for wolf tracks in the Grouse Flats, Tucannon, and Touchet pack territories to determine the number of individual wolves in each of those packs. They also scouted areas near Stampede Pass following up on reports from the public in that area.

REMINDER: Any reports of remote camera images or videos, wolf tracks, or sightings from the public are extremely helpful to assist in locating new wolf activity and potential new packs on the landscape. Please take photos of wolves or wolf sign (use some way to measure the size of a track) and upload them to the wolf reporting page found at the following link: https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/reporting/.

Proactive Deterrence Measures
WDFW biologists responded to wolf activity and depredations in the Smackout and Old Profanity Territory (OPT) areas this past month. They worked with other local WDFW staff members and the livestock producers to help protect livestock in these areas. Further updates can be found at the following links:
•Smackout: https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/9/
•Togo:  https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/27/
•Old Profanity Peak:  https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/7/

Administration

The Carnivore Section hired Wolf Biologist Gabe Spence to assist with field operations, including winter captures, winter track surveys, and spring/summer trapping efforts to capture, collar, and monitor wolves.

WDFW filed a CR101 (WSR 18-20-084) on October 1, 2018 to initiate the process for a periodic status review of gray wolf. The department will review all relevant data pertaining to the population status and factors affecting existence in Washington for gray wolf. Based on the information collected and reviewed, the department will make recommendations to maintain the species current listing status as endangered or reclassify species to sensitive, threatened, or other status. The public comment period will be announced at a later date. WDFW will provide updates here and under the Rules Information Center page of the WFDW website.

Packs Referenced: Grouse Flats, Profanity Peak, Smackout, Teanaway, Togo, Touchet, Tucannon

Last Updated: Dec. 3, 2018 3:25 PM

-WDFW-

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Stewardship > Wolves need our help NOW!
  Happy Birthday Gabigabs, alpine964!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy