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treeswarper
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PostTue Dec 10, 2019 1:11 pm 
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Sculpin:

Llamas get killed by Mountain Lions and I'm also thinking a few have been maimed or dispatched by wolves.

There was a multi page article on a range rider in the Spokesman Review a few weeks ago.  I suggest you try to find it and read it.

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Ski
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PostTue Dec 10, 2019 1:43 pm 
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Sculpin wrote:
"...one guy causing most of the problems is very rich..."

The predation reports from WDFW show that incidents happen all over, not just on one ranch.

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treeswarper
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PostTue Dec 10, 2019 8:36 pm 
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Article about existing range riders in WA.  It's a good read.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/nov/03/the-cowboy-whisperer-ferry-county-range-rider-work/

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Ski
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PostTue Dec 10, 2019 11:37 pm 
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Eli Francovich, reporting for the Spokesman-Review, talking about range rider Daniel Curry wrote:
Those ranchers, he thought, shouldn’t even have their cattle on public land. Wolves had a right to be there. Cows did not.

^ And there's one of the largest problems: people who refuse to accept the fact that federal LAW says the cows have every right to be there grazing on federal lands.

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graywolf
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PostWed Dec 11, 2019 9:03 am 
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Ski wrote:
Eli Francovich, reporting for the Spokesman-Review, talking about range rider Daniel Curry wrote:
Those ranchers, he thought, shouldn’t even have their cattle on public land. Wolves had a right to be there. Cows did not.

^ And there's one of the largest problems: people who refuse to accept the fact that federal LAW says the cows have every right to be there grazing on federal lands.

Ski, do you know what the current fee is (per head) for grazing cattle on federal lands?  Just wondering.

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PostWed Dec 11, 2019 2:03 pm 
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I wouldn't have the slightest idea currently, why?

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PostWed Dec 11, 2019 2:07 pm 
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Wednesday December 11, 2019 11:40 PST

WDFW GRAY WOLF UPDATE

A new update on wolf activities is available on the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife’s website: https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/at-risk/species-recovery/gray-wolf/updates

-WDFW-

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graywolf
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PostWed Dec 11, 2019 4:47 pm 
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Ski wrote:
I wouldn't have the slightest idea currently, why?

Just curious.

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PostWed Dec 11, 2019 5:53 pm 
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I looked it up years ago.
On the surface, it seems a paltry sum.
In the larger context, I am sure that there's more to raising a cow from calf to slaughter than the grazing fees.
Moreover, the amount of money charged by the USFS really isn't relevant to the conversation about wolves - it's just something that pro-wolf people bring up when they run out of other arguments.

The USFS was founded on the principal of "multi use" by Gifford Pinchot and his close personal friend Theodore Roosevelt. "Multi use" includes grazing. It also includes mining, timber harvest, extraction of other resources, and way way way down the list it includes hiking and camping and backpacking.

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treeswarper
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PostWed Dec 11, 2019 6:10 pm 
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It's a cheap fee when compared to grazing on leased, private land.  However, on  private land, the owner takes care of the fence.  On public land, the cow people have to fix and maintain fences, which is quite a chore.

Added later:  In fact, I seem to recall reading that if you add up the additional work required on a federal grazing allotment, it comes close to equaling the cost of a private lease. 


The guys rounding up cows this fall on the Loup were so rich, they had 1960s stock trucks to haul their horses in and had to jump out and tinker with the engine of one of those old trucks.   I offered to give them a tow with my e-bike cuz you know, it has a powerful motor. biggrin.gif

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PostWed Dec 11, 2019 6:17 pm 
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Those who object to the USFS program of grazing allotments would do well to remember that without the support of United States Senators from Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, Texas, Oklahoma, Montana, and a number of other states where cattle ranching was big business at the time, there would never have been a U.S. Forest Service, and those 93 million acres would today be privately owned, and private citizens would not be allowed entry onto them, let alone the wolves.

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graywolf
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PostWed Dec 11, 2019 10:24 pm 
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Okay, thanks for the info.

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Logbear
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PostThu Dec 12, 2019 10:23 am 
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https://www.blm.gov/press-release/blm-and-forest-service-grazing-fees-lowered-2019
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Logbear
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PostThu Dec 12, 2019 10:27 am 
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https://www.beefmagazine.com/business/rising-lease-rates-decreasing-prices
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Ski
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PostThu Dec 12, 2019 1:12 pm 
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^ Both very interesting and telling articles, Logbear.

The second article you cited is dated March 1, 2008.

I am not at all surprised by those numbers. It is typical of the sort of "corporate welfare" handed down to industries at the federal level.
In an ideal world, grazing fees on federal land would be more in line with those on private lands, but if that were the case, they would not have been selling New York strip steaks up at Safeway last week for $5.99 a pound ( compare to about $11.00 - $14.00 per pound in Paris )
There's a reason why you're eating the cheapest food on the planet: it's all subsidized at the federal level.

But that entire discussion goes far beyond the scope of the subject of this thread, which is wolves.

Various administrations over the course of the last 150 years have been doing their best to increase the profit margins and fatten the wallets of their biggest campaign contributors, so this is nothing new. ( The "Teapot Dome" scandal probably being the most infamous. )

I would submit that if the law had not prevented them from doing so, the current administration would have reduced the grazing fees to zero, and literally given the leases away for free. That would certainly be in line with the other shenanigans we have seen in Washington DC during the course of the last few years.

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