Forum Index > Stewardship > Green Trails' Way trails - Since When?
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Randy
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PostTue Jan 08, 2002 5:44 pm 
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A buddy comes over to my cube today at work and starts showing me the route he took on a recent trip up Quartz Mt near the Taylor/M FK confluence. I took a quick glance at the map and new something was up. The new Green Trails map showed several of the proposed trails that have been well talked about for the area. Upon further inspection I also noticed that the route up to Rainy Lake has been "dashed" onto the map. A fairly accurate representation of the route too. Since when are we getting unofficial, never been maintained, fisherman routes put on Green Trails maps? I can understand having formerly maintained/abandoned routes dashed on there, but this is a little out there IMHO. Might as well put the other dozen or so really neat way routes in the area on there too! Geeze.

I can see Tom racing out the door to pick up his copy. †smile.gif
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MtnGoat
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PostTue Jan 08, 2002 5:50 pm 
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Maybe someone needs to point out the possible liability issues in showing "trails" that are not maintained, on a map that is intentionally and primarily geared towards non experienced users. †rolleyes.gif

GT is getting some mail today.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Oldtimer
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PostTue Jan 08, 2002 7:12 pm 
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Rainy Lake used to be a nice destination. Those who were able to follow the old CCC trail from Camp Brown up the outlet were led into another basin, which helped Rainy stay relatively isolated. However, Rainy no longer is isolated.

In one of the Washington Trails issues sometime last year, Ira Spring listed 10 areas he wanted people to become familiar with so the areas could be declared Wilderness areas. Rainy Lake was one of the 10. That sort of put the death-rattle on the lake. When the new bridge went across the Mid Fork, someone apparently ribboned the route to Rainy; the ribbons disappeared and reappeared, then the trail appeared. Apparently, it is a pretty good trail.
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Allison
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PostTue Jan 08, 2002 7:24 pm 
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Ah, crap, GT needs to get some mail from me too.

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follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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McPilchuck
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PostTue Jan 08, 2002 7:25 pm 
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One reason why I maintain a low profile when it comes to writing or talking about pristine places on "exactly" how to get there. †I suppose this has been hashed about many many times, but if one is not discrete in some areas, Bud, his brother and cousin will be up there in a flash, then telling so on and so forth...one reason why unmaintained trails or way routes should be left off maps, but tell that to their makers.

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in the granite high-wild alpine land . . .
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Allison
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PostTue Jan 08, 2002 7:28 pm 
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Oh, yes, many times. There are people on this board who have shared *some* info with me and then there are people who have been caught whispering about fishing holes at this groups social gatherings. You know who you are!!! cool.gif

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Randy
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PostTue Jan 08, 2002 7:45 pm 
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Whispering is the only way. Especially if there are people with personal websites lurking here and there or on the other side of the fire! †moon.gif
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Randy
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PostTue Jan 08, 2002 8:05 pm 
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For Rainy I'm trending toward was Chris was getting at. Unofficial trails or fisherman routes don't belong on GT maps, liability is an important reason why. They didn't even lable the route, I'm really wondering about the thought process (or lack there of) that went into this. I can see myself getting the famous "How far is it to Otter Slide/Falls?" question on that trail now; in other words, where the heck am I?

It's a well published route and I'd be a hypocrite if I said it needed to be kept a secret, there's a trip report (or three) of mine over at WTA. I'm mostly concerned about other secret (there's that word again) way trails in the area - some take you to the most untraveled and pristine areas of the valley, Rainy Lake is not one of those. Last thing that I want to see is a bunch of dashed routes on GT maps. Pretty soon you get cairns and flags marking routes, then unofficial trails, then pounded lake basins and trash.

Lets just hope the GT folks never open up Dreisbach's book! †smile.gif BTW, don't they need FS approval for any new trails or routes they print?
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polarbear
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PostTue Jan 08, 2002 8:53 pm 
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Playing devil's advocate though, if you don't put it on the map, someone may accidently end up on the trail and not know where they are (unless there's a rainbow at the end of it). †Overall, I'd prefer the way trail be left off the map, but if it ends up being as well traveled as the trail it forks off of maybe it should be?

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...and a window that looks out on Corcovado...  Corcovado Hill
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Jonathan
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PostTue Jan 08, 2002 9:57 pm 
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polarbear wrote:
Playing devil's advocate though, if you don't put it on the map, someone may accidently end up on the trail and not know where they are (unless there's a rainbow at the end of it). †

Rainbow???? There's no rainbow it is full of Cutthroat. lol.gif
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Backpacker Joe
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NWH Joe-Bob
PostTue Jan 08, 2002 10:09 pm 
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Oh brother. †Remember when Harvey and Ira kept the route to Lake Serene out of their 100+ hikes book because the FF asked them to? †I respected that because they very easily could have said screw it, it's there and were putting it in. †It wasnt an established (or very safe) trail and it didnt need to be drawing people to it by being in a guide book. †Well, to the GT people I say IRRESPONCIBLE! †It's wrong giving misleading trial reports. †That's what they are doing. †You DONT need a †black line on a map to use the damn map! †A map is just as infomative WITHOUT the damn trail marker. †Produce the damn maps and label sanctioned trails!
TB moon.gifmoon.gifmoon.gifmoon.gifmoon.gifmoon.gif

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

ó Abraham Lincoln
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Tom
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PostTue Jan 08, 2002 11:00 pm 
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I think it's a little unfair to single out some of us with personal websites and subtly brand us as less trustworthy. †I made some comments at the last forum (in the spirit of intellectual debate) that were not necessarily indicative of my personal views, but I did strongly object to what I considered were flaws in logic and unwarranted criticism of a few who maintained websites with hiking related information.
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Backpacker Joe
NWH Joe-Bob



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NWH Joe-Bob
PostTue Jan 08, 2002 11:01 pm 
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Hey, I blundered too when I just talked about good fishing lakes. †I NEVER gave or even hinted at directions. †I learned my lesson.

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

ó Abraham Lincoln
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Randy
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Cube Rat
PostWed Jan 09, 2002 1:10 am 
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Did I leave out my smiley face? Oh, it was a moon/smiley face instead.

I certainly remember the debates and discussions pertaining to secrets. And, with all the talk weíve had on the various boards regarding this subject over and over again I would (at this point) think those with personal sites could set the sensitivities aside and take the post for what it was, a joke. And give me a break, you poke fun and recessitate rumors like nobodyís business. The personal website deal is one of your buttons, and I pushed it, all in good fun though. smile.gif

Itís not about you being less *trustworthy* than someone that doesnít have a site, itís all about you being free do what you want with your site and me playing damage control. †Of course, those with personal sites are free to post whatever they want from their hikes and adventures and I respect their right to do so. That said, I *might* be a bit squeamish about what sort information I give you, or to a writer for a local outdoors magazine, or columnist for the PI for that matter. Donít take offense to the whispering because itís not directed personally at you, itís directed specifically at what I consider valuable and pristine, and itís directed towards preserving a few spectacular regularities of this pastime that occupies much of my time (my girlfriend says too much of my time!). The maps are there, the books are there, terraserver is there, altimeters and compasses are cheap (especially for you!) - you donít need me to get up there! Sorry.

It was nice of you to take the "elitist" jab out of your original post. Feel free to drop me an e-mail if you would like to hash this out a bit more.
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Tom
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PostWed Jan 09, 2002 2:19 am 
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Who said I needed or wanted assistance? †You've mistakenly assumed or inferred that at least three times so far. †My communication with folks here (or anywhere for that matter) is not about extracting secrets, it's about meeting and hiking with people that share a love for the outdoors. †As far as elitism, while relevant, I thought it confused the issue, so I removed it from my post. †It was not necessarily directed to you. †Sure, I poke fun, and if the person takes offense or misinterprets, I try not to add fuel to the fire. †I'm able to afford gear others might not. †I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion. †I'm not aware of any rumors that I've "recessitated?" here.
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