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cave coyote
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Joined: 18 May 2003
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cave coyote
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PostMon May 19, 2003 5:55 pm 
eek.gif This year I'm having to buy some new equipment, And I make a point of buying gear made in america, I do this because I belive that most of the folks who make it here would be outdoor and adventure minded people and I want to support them instead of some one who does not care what happens to the shoe once it leaves the sweat shop. Well to my surprise almost everything that the REI sales people showed me was made in china! And when I asked about gear made in the USA their selection was very slim, especially the big ticket items sleeping bags, packs, tents, and boots. So I walked out with a pair of boot laces and decided to never become a member even though I live 2 blocks from the Bellingham store

USFS land of the fee home of the paved
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Tom
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PostMon May 19, 2003 6:13 pm 
I sure wish they carried quality stuff like Western Mountaineering. In some cases I wonder if it's due to the manufacturer not wanting to distribute thru REI in order to keep production under control and maintain high quality standards.

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Furriner
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PostMon May 19, 2003 6:36 pm 
Shop at Costco! Mucho bettah.

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Backpacker Joe
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
PostMon May 19, 2003 9:18 pm 
I think for my kind of gear, Pro Mountain Sports is the best place. For most people I'd say it's Marmot in swelvue. I do prefer Western Mount. sleeping bags though. TB

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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cave coyote
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PostMon May 19, 2003 9:45 pm 
I belive that they do this to keep the casual day and overnight hikers coming back to buy more.Lets face it only a hardcore outdoor enthusiast will pay for top qaulity equipment knowing that it will last longer. Plus corprate america has bought alot of the companys that made thier equipment here because of the qaulity and name recignition then moved it overseas to increase profits. a good example is dana design, Who was bought by Black dimond then moved thier manufacuring to mexico. They put alot of good people on the street in Boseman Montana.

USFS land of the fee home of the paved
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Can You Spare A Dime?
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Can You Spare A Dime?
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PostMon May 19, 2003 9:55 pm 
cave hodag wrote:
Lets face it only a hardcore outdoor enthusiast will pay for top qaulity equipment knowing that it will last longer.
I much prefer "Made in America" and make a point to buy American when I can (does that make me bigoted?), but as Cave Hodag intoned, I cannot afford a $400 sleeping bag for overnight hikes. I'd love to, but can't. REI's $49.95 superspecial works fine and if it gives out after a few years, well OK... As for jobs going overseas or south of the border, NAFTA et al. are other discussions.

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Globetrotter
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PostMon May 19, 2003 10:01 pm 
Face it... American workers are too expensive. We all need our 4WD cars and 3-car garages and union dues. Meanwhile in Malaysia they are lucky to have a payin' job.

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Allison
Feckless Swooner



Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Allison
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PostMon May 19, 2003 10:42 pm 
Certain things are almost all made in Asia, like tents. Not too many being made anywhere else. As a result of this, a lot of really good ones are made there now. Not that I think that is right, but some of the best work at any price, is being done there. And for a whole lot cheaper. In these few factories, the way I understand it, you pretty much order up the quality you want by price you are willing to pay. It does cost more to make goods of a higher quality no matter what the hourly wage is. I don't think anyone who is paying union dues is going to complain about paying more to buy goods that are made in what I would call "labor-friendly countries." Used to be we would say "made in America" but that's getting to be a tall order, and there are a lot of other countries where labor standards are comparable, or nowadays better, than here. That said, shop wherever you want to shop, and look for the "made in ____" label on the goods. There isn't any place I know of where stuff made in good places is selected just for that, thought MEC in Canada has a lot (both in their own brand and the stuff they carry) that is made in Canada. For what it is worth, REI carries Zamberlain boots, made in a very small factory in Italy (like 40 employees). I have a pair that I would have paid twice what I paid to get them. They cost right about the same as the REI boots that were made in Romania that were of much lower quality. On the other hand, REI sells, and also sells with the REI label on, goods from Omega Pacific. OP is a local company that used to manufacture their goods in Redmond or Kirkland, but shut that operation down. Now they proudly make their goods in the Airway Heights Correctional Facility. Make of that what you will.

www.allisonoutside.com follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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polarbear
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polarbear
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PostMon May 19, 2003 11:29 pm 
When I read that some of the rock in the North Cascades is from China, that made me even more upset. You would think the Cascades could have at least been made all in the USA.

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Sore Feet
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PostTue May 20, 2003 12:52 am 
polarbear wrote:
When I read that some of the rock in the North Cascades is from China, that made me even more upset. You would think the Cascades could have at least been made all in the USA.
Damn commie mountains! curse.gif baaa.gif biggrin.gif

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Dean
(aka CascadeHiker)



Joined: 02 Mar 2002
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Location: ex Kennewick, Wa & Lehi Utah
Dean
(aka CascadeHiker)
PostTue May 20, 2003 4:22 am 
Quote:
Damn commie mountains!
I love this site. You guys crack me up showing the one thing that can never be imported from elsewhere, the American sense of humor. It really helps to set us apart. lol.gif

Dean - working in Utah for awhile and feeling like it is a 'paid' vacation. http://www.summitpost.org/user_page.php?user_id=1160
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El Puma
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El Puma
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PostTue May 20, 2003 6:19 am 
From Allison: "In these few factories, the way I understand it, you pretty much order up the quality you want by price you are willing to pay. It does cost more to make goods of a higher quality no matter what the hourly wage is. " Interesting you should note that... In Beijing there are several small shops on markets which sell NorthFace stuff: Down jackets for $25-40, top-of-the-line sleeping bags for $80etc. I managed to talk to someone in my quest to find out if they were knock-offs and received an interesting answer: TNF had a manufacturing contract with a local shop, then after a few years canceled it because they found a cheaper one in the boonies. Rather than laying off his 50 or 100 employees, the owner just continued cranking out TNF stuff to the same specs and selling them "underground". Great deal for us - would YOU support that kind of free enterprise?

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kleet
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Joined: 06 Feb 2002
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kleet
meat tornado
PostTue May 20, 2003 6:23 am 
I was ready to march down to REI and give them a piece of my mind, but I couldn't decide whether to drive my Japanese Accord which was made in Ohio or my American Ford which was made in Brazil. waah.gif

A fuxk, why do I not give one?
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Newt
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Joined: 21 Dec 2001
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Location: Down the road and around the corner
Newt
Short Timer
PostTue May 20, 2003 6:48 am 
It's all about profit. Sometimes it's supply and demand. but usually profit. If they expect to make 20% and only make 18%, they lost money. Then they need to make some adjustments. Usually labor or materials. Or both. When I was in manufacturing we paid our union workers some where between $8-$10 an hr. We ended up buying our finished products from Korea and Taiwan. They paid their workers $3-$4 a DAY. Even after shipping and duties there was a tidy profit after selling at a slightly reduced price. Quality wasn't nearly as good, but hey, folks bought it and the profit was good. Good ole free world enterprise. Screw the consumers, it's all about shareholders. NN

It's pretty safe to say that if we take all of man kinds accumulated knowledge, we still don't know everything. So, I hope you understand why I don't believe you know everything. But then again, maybe you do.
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Steve
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Joined: 29 Jan 2002
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Steve
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PostTue May 20, 2003 7:12 am 
Quote:
American workers are too expensive
Are you offering to take a pay cut then? I don't necessarily have a problem buying foreign goods, but we are exporting US jobs so that the "shareholder" can make more money. Working for Boeing I see it happening here. The McDonnell-Douglas people who run the place want to send most of the work somewhere else so they can make their double digit profits. I mean after all, that philosophy worked so well for MDC, why not here? curse.gif rant.gif It is interesting, though, a couple weeks ago a very highly respected consultant, Mr Nikao, from Toyota came an told Boeing what they were doing is all wrong and that to make the best product and the highest profit to make everything in house like Toyota does. Of course there were the nay sayers, scoffing that this is Boeing and those ideas won't work here, etc. So I'm sure we will continue with the ever successful MDC model that made that company what it is today. bawl.gif

Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.
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